Roscoe Sound Clips (Part 2)

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by LilRay

Driving tune Joe..

Merry Christmas Brother!



God Bless, Ray

Thanks Ray and Merry Christmas to you too Brother!

[VroomVroom]

How's about a little new year revival... Same ol' same ol' from me. Here are some clips from a trio hit last weekend down in Santa Cruz. Hadn't played with the drummer in almost a year, and hadn't even seen the piano player in over a year and a half. Fun gig for sure, even if it got cut short a bit. I'm hoping to be back this coming Saturday, and if so I think the music will be better. As you'll hear, we spent some time going back & forth, feeling things out. Next time some of those things will be more intuitive, and we'll be able to focus on the good stuff. Until then, here's what I got...

Fertile Myrtle (SKB 3006), in need of a fresh set of DR Low Riders, into the Shuttle 9.0 & Berg HT112ER.

Black Nile Right off the bat...boom, a tough Wayne Shorter tune. Here's where bass solos go bad. Dug the feel at the end of the tune, though.

Blues for Presto This is a Howard Wright original, so I left out the head. Just a blooze with some alternate changes. Not sure what I was reaching for in the solo, beyond something different.

Footprints A few nice ensemble moments here and there. This shows why you never let the bass player take the out head. (And dig the drunk guy asking if we know a certain tune...gotta' love Santa Cruz.)

As always: dig the bass, forgive the bassee.

[ubone]

.....?????? No love for us obnoxious drunks????

[Bipslapper]

Originally Posted by ubone

.....?????? No love for us obnoxious drunks????

Aye! We are capable of being offended, ya know...

[ubone]

Very Nice Jerry.. I really like the entire vibe of the trio and the space allowed for soloing.
Fertile Myrtle sounds excellent in your hands guided by your cool musical sensibilities. Saved to the hard drive for listening whilst I work... Martini Time anyone???

[blen dem]

Originally Posted by ubone

Saved to the hard drive for listening whilst I work... Martini Time anyone???

Oh ya, my "Vroom" Playlist is on constant rotation here at work Thanks Jerry and as always, beautiful music with that Scoe! LET'S GO NINERS!!!! Sorry Gard, it just came out!

[VroomVroom]

Hey Folks...backatya again. Same venue, same players, same amp, one week later. Finally getting around to playing with audio from the gig on the 21st. TONS of ambient noise, but I figured I'd share some stuff so you can catch the bubinga beast in all its glory. This is D020 - the Century 6 Standard Plus J, ash, bubinga, wenge board. Wicked, with an aggressive tone that briefly paralyzes, but doesn't maim.

Body & Soul

Blues for Presto - we played this tune the week before, so this gives a nice comparison between the SKB and the beast.

A Night in Tunisia

All the Things You Are - hadn't played this on a gig since the recent Chris Potter youtube adventure, so it was fun trying to revisit it with a fresh perspective.

[MG Bass]

Hey Jerry,

very nice as usual.
what rig were u playing through and settings ?

[VroomVroom]

Thanks! As always, dig the bass, forgive the bassee.

Bass: I did boost the lower mids and bias the bridge pickup on a few tunes, but everything above is with all settings flat & centered, with the volume @ ~ 7/10.

Amp: Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0. Pre-gain @ 2 o'clock, gain & all EQ @ Noon, no presets, master vol @ ~ 10 o'clock....maybe a little less.

Cab: Bergantino HT112ER. Tweeter @ 10 o'clock.

[JOME77]

Very nice Jerry! I really like the tone of that bass.
Love the solo's in "Tunisia" & "All the Things You are". Totally different approaches to each but both very nice!

[MG Bass]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Thanks! As always, dig the bass, forgive the bassee.

Bass: I did boost the lower mids and bias the bridge pickup on a few tunes, but everything above is with all settings flat & centered, with the volume @ ~ 7/10.

Amp: Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0. Pre-gain @ 2 o'clock, gain & all EQ @ Noon, no presets, master vol @ ~ 10 o'clock....maybe a little less.

Cab: Bergantino HT112ER. Tweeter @ 10 o'clock.

Amazing! pretty straight forward from what you're saying- just shows that these basses sound so good with hardly any tone shaping. Hard to beat that.
Thx again brother!

[VroomVroom]

Alright, back at you again. Nothing really new here, other than the sound of the bass. Last Saturday's hit was in the worship room of a large church in San Jose...essentially a very well crafted concert hall. Here we were...a jazz trio...playing on a large stage, with lighting, and absolutely amazing acoustics. The only weird thing, which you'll hear in the recordings...we were so far apart that the quality of the piano really suffers. Drums, sound great, though...and the bass? Hooglie. I smiled from beginning to end.

What you hear is the sound of Roscoe magic, from about 10' in front of the speaker cab. I used Fertile Myrtle, Shuttle 9.0, and Berg HT112ER...same ol' same ol'. The gig itself was a wedding reception, and the piano player is someone I rarely get to play with...she's a very "sweet" player - inside, but with great time and wonderful phrasing. My man, Carlos on drums...and as leader, he does tend to call the same staple of tunes. Again, the takeaway here is the sound of the bass. All flat, all centered, all Roscoe.

Favorite Things

Ipanema

Mercy Mercy

Some Day My Prince

One Note Samba

[Bipslapper]

Sounds great, Jerry per usual. The piano sounds "airy" like a Debussy piece .

Question: I finally played a gig with the Shuttle 9.0 and HT112ER (bass was not Roscoe but some graphite phenolic thingy), anyhoo- I was getting the clip (Limit) light on for most of the 1st set. Bass pre-amp is hot (turned it down at break). Band is rock, some jazz and room was small. I did play with a drummer and 2 guitarists so may have been pushing it. Any tips on the Shuttle 9.0 & HT112 ER relationship; settings to avoid the unwanted "distorted" sound I was getting.

Apologies for straying off original topic... and if I should have done this via PM then shame on me

Thanks again for the clips, they are awesome.

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by Bipslapper

Question: I finally played a gig with the Shuttle 9.0 and HT112ER (bass was not Roscoe but some graphite phenolic thingy), anyhoo- I was getting the clip (Limit) light on for most of the 1st set. Bass pre-amp is hot (turned it down at break). Band is rock, some jazz and room was small. I did play with a drummer and 2 guitarists so may have been pushing it. Any tips on the Shuttle 9.0 & HT112 ER relationship; settings to avoid the unwanted "distorted" sound I was getting.

I'd say you need a 2nd cab, unless you can convince your band to play quieter. I'm not super well versed in the Shuttle's behaviour yet but my instinct is that for that setting I'd want 2x112 or similar anyway. That's been my experience with the Berg 12s and rock bands anyway.

[Bipslapper]

Thanks Jeff, I agree. I do have another Berg cab (HS 410) which is great on it's own. I will just use that next gig with the Shuttle 9.0 or Streamliner 900 (I am fortunate to have both). No speaker purchase anytime soon.

Can't buy another musical item until my next bass is here and the honeymoon is over. Wifey-poo knows about the Bubinga Baby, curse you Facebook!

[VroomVroom]

Originally Posted by Bipslapper

Question: I finally played a gig with the Shuttle 9.0 and HT112ER (bass was not Roscoe but some graphite phenolic thingy), anyhoo- I was getting the clip (Limit) light on for most of the 1st set. Bass pre-amp is hot (turned it down at break). Band is rock, some jazz and room was small. I did play with a drummer and 2 guitarists so may have been pushing it. Any tips on the Shuttle 9.0 & HT112 ER relationship; settings to avoid the unwanted "distorted" sound I was getting.

Hmmm. Could be a, "pushing the 9.0 @ 8-ohms thing," but I'd try other things first. My guess is this is more of an input-side issue as I've gotten pretty darn LOUD with this same combo without issue....and if it were an output problem, you'd likely hear choking/compressing before any clipping or cutout.

Here are my settings. Volume on the bass at roughly 7/10. Amp...on the pre-side I set the gain @ 2 o'clock and the volume @ Noon. (There's some room to play there.) I generally keep the master volume at Noon, but will occasionally go to 2 o'clock. I never use any of the EQ shape buttons, and the EQ itself is always Nooned. How does this compare to your settings?

I'd start by experimenting with the pre & master volume levels, and see what that gets you. Also...how fresh is the battery in your bass? It is amazing how much this can factor into the exact problems you describe. Based on your description, I'm optimistic you can solve this without resorting to the 410. And...as always, my friend, thanks for the positive feedback on my hack playing.

[RocketMusic]

Pete - you've got 3 controls on a Shuttle that allow you to increase the volume: preamp "gain", preamp "volume", and "master volume". The preamp "gain" is the usual suspect for distortion that is occuring inside the amp (as opposed to distortion in the cab if you're just pushing it beyond it's abilities). If your bass's on-board preamp is hot, you can turn the amp's preamp gain down to account for that. For a clean, pristine tone with an active bass, I'd keep the gain under 3-4 (9-10 o'clock). Then turn up the preamp volume all you like to maximize the amount of volume coming out of the preamp section as a whole. Then set the master volume to whatever is required. I'm hoping you were just overdriving the Shuttle preamp section, but it could very well be that you needed a bit more cabinet.

I gigged on Saturday night in a similar situation (loud drums, 2 guitars & keys). I used my new Streamliner 900 head into a Berg NV610 cab. I never got the Streamliner master volume up over 3 (9 o'clock), and I was borderline too loud. I had the preamp gain @ 4 and the preamp volume @ 9 or 10.

I always like to get as much gain out of the earliest gain stages to minimize the amount of noise that ends up coming out the speakers & tweeters. If you turn your onboard preamp down and you turn down the preamp gain & volume, then you're counting on the power section of the head to do most of the work (i.e. gain) to get you up to where you need to be volume-wise. There's noise being introduced all along the signal path (in the bass's preamp, in the head's preamp, and in the head's power amp section). Some of the noise generated at any particular gain stage noise is independent of the gain at that stage (i.e. the same amount of background noise is introduced whether you crank or don't crank the particular gain stage). So if you're not applying gain early in the path, then your signal to noise ratio can take a beating. When you do finally apply that ton of gain at the end end (i.e. the master volume), you're amplifying the original signal PLUS all the noise introduced by the other gain stages along the way. That leads to hiss, hum, etc. that doesn't really need to be there.

So long story short - apply copious amounts of gain early in the signal chain, as much as can be done without overdriving any subsequent gain stage. That'll leave you with the most headroom in the power section and a better S/N ratio.

[RocketMusic]

^^ Or what Jerry said.

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by RocketMusic

I always like to get as much gain out of the earliest gain stages to minimize the amount of noise that ends up coming out the speakers & tweeters. If you turn your onboard preamp down and you turn down the preamp gain & volume, then you're counting on the power section of the head to do most of the work (i.e. gain) to get you up to where you need to be volume-wise. There's noise being introduced all along the signal path (in the bass's preamp, in the head's preamp, and in the head's power amp section). Some of the noise generated at any particular gain stage noise is independent of the gain at that stage (i.e. the same amount of background noise is introduced whether you crank or don't crank the particular gain stage). So if you're not applying gain early in the path, then your signal to noise ratio can take a beating. When you do finally apply that ton of gain at the end end (i.e. the master volume), you're amplifying the original signal PLUS all the noise introduced by the other gain stages along the way. That leads to hiss, hum, etc. that doesn't really need to be there.

With regards to this, I often think I'd rather have a "kill" switch on my basses than a volume knob. It doesn't make sense to run the volume pot on board at anything other than wide open when you have control over the preamp gain on your amp and a master volume knob regulating how much power goes to your speakers.

[VroomVroom]

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

With regards to this, I often think I'd rather have a "kill" switch on my basses than a volume knob. It doesn't make sense to run the volume pot on board at anything other than wide open when you have control over the preamp gain on your amp and a master volume knob regulating how much power goes to your speakers.

Unless your gigs require immediate changes in volume based on logistics, variable size of the ensemble, styles of music being covered, etc.