Roscoes with,.. uh, different pickups....

[Darkstrike]

So, I know Paco has one with Delano soapbars, and Greg's has Barden J pickups, but are there other Roscoes out there with unusual pickups installed?

I know on older models there were EMG soapbars, and before them Bart P/J's were a choice.

Has anyone tried other soapbars in the standard Roscoe size, like Kent Armstrong Customs(I hear they sound like Alembics, or Lane Poors), or Duncan soapbars, what about SDG's new pickups, ment to sound great, I'm sure there's more out there that fit too.

Just curious...

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

So, I know Paco has one with Delano soapbars, and Greg's has Barden J pickups, but are there other Roscoes out there with unusual pickups installed?

I know on older models there were EMG soapbars, and before them Bart P/J's were a choice.

Has anyone tried other soapbars in the standard Roscoe size, like Kent Armstrong Customs(I hear they sound like Alembics, or Lane Poors), or Duncan soapbars, what about SDG's new pickups, ment to sound great, I'm sure there's more out there that fit too.

Just curious...

These are my favs:

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

So, I know Paco has one with Delano soapbars, and Greg's has Barden J pickups, but are there other Roscoes out there with unusual pickups installed?

I know on older models there were EMG soapbars, and before them Bart P/J's were a choice.

Has anyone tried other soapbars in the standard Roscoe size, like Kent Armstrong Customs(I hear they sound like Alembics, or Lane Poors), or Duncan soapbars, what about SDG's new pickups, ment to sound great, I'm sure there's more out there that fit too.

Just curious...

You pretty much named everything that I've seen installed. I really liked the sound of the clips of the Delano's that Shiveringbass posted here:

Roscoe + Glockenklang + Delano soundclips !

I'm not sure what the Delano p/u's contributed to the sound verses the Glock pre but I do like the sound.

Other than those, and Greg's Barden J pickups, which sound awesome but wouldn't quite fill the standard route area in a Roscoe, nothing else has really jumped out at me. I guess that I'm so satisfied with the Bart CB's that I haven't really explored that area much.

I'd certainly be interesting in hearing from others that had tried other brands though.

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by JOME77

You pretty much named everything that I've seen installed. I really liked the sound of the clips of the Delano's that Shiveringbass posted here:

Roscoe + Glockenklang + Delano soundclips !

I'm not sure what the Delano p/u's contributed to the sound verses the Glock pre but I do like the sound.

Other than those, and Greg's Barden J pickups, which sound awesome but wouldn't quite fill the standard route area in a Roscoe, nothing else has really jumped out at me. I guess that I'm so satisfied with the Bart CB's that I haven't really explored that area much.

I'd certainly be interesting in hearing from others that had tried other brands though.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy, delighted even, with my Roscoe Barts, but I can't help wondering what all these different pickups sound like.

[LightGroove]

In all honesty Dark,

I went on an OCD pickup/preamp rant a few years back.While it wasn't in a Roscoe bass I'm sure the comparison can be similar.

My conclusion was such that while each pickup had its own thing going its wasn't very significant from the original I tested. Thus I wouldnt have spent the money to have it done.

There are a couple factors that I learned as well that affected overall tone. Mainly my playing style...which isnt very good and what type of setting i was in. A lot of a pickups "nuances" or personality really get lost in say a heavy rock mix...where most people hear the low and punchy tones..but a little more audible in say a solo or jazz show... I also dont think Glassy or harsh highs really translate into much of anything outside of maybe recording. Maybe mid frequencies.

Lastly after switching back to a Roscoe at church I was approached by a guy(our former wl) who I consider brilliant with music (playing, hearing) He said what have you changed b/c that is the tightest Ive heard bass sound in this building. First time Ive heard that over the typical ...boomy or muddy comments. My pickups are the standard Barts and tickled pink.

My point being- A majority of what we get caught up in tone wise really doesn't mean squat outside of pleasing our own personal ears...IMHO

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by LightGroove

My point being- A majority of what we get caught up in tone wise really doesn't mean squat outside of pleasing our own personal ears...IMHO

I'll second that - A friend of mine said something to me last week that stuck, he said, "No matter what bass you have in your hands you always seem to get that tone from it". Something I learned way way back in my upright days, most of your tone comes from your hands, despite the thought that these are electric instruments I think it still applies. My sole benchmark for a good instrument is how it sounds unplugged, is the wood giving off a good tone, is the body resonating nicely. IMHO, the PU's job is to do nothing more then transfer that.

Something good producers and engineers have always know, s$%t in = s$%out, "fix it in the mix" is a myth; which indirectly implies that the small fortune of electronics and processing at their disposal will do nothing if the source of the sound is not good to begin with. For me it's more a question of finding an instrument that reproduces the sound in my head while allowing me to produce that sound in a manner homogeneous with a comfortable physical execution. Two instruments in my 30+ years of playing have done that for me, my Roscoe and my Smith, the later of which I no longer own or miss. Though I do have to admit, I would someday like to see Keith build a neck-through model...

[VroomVroom]

Some great commentary above me. FWIW (not much, I know ) I'll spout off with my take on the whole electronics thing.

CLIFF NOTES VERSION: You just never know. If something isn't working for you, and you want to try new pickups, pots, pre-amp, etc...have at it. Just be prepared for disappointment.

Touching first on playability (which I know is a tangent, please bear with me), you can't discount its importance. But sound, at least for me, is where it's at. If a bass sounds incredible, I'll forgive a lot of other issues. As it speaks to Roscoe instruments, the sound is king, but in my years of playing, there is no other instrument on the planet that plays like a Roscoe. Smith comes close, but as mentioned above, I no longer own...or miss...mine. The reason? Sound. Bada boom.

The sound that drew me in to Roscoes is what I think of as the brand's "character" tone. This means different things to all of us, but those punchy mids, fat lows, and full highs...even throughout the range of the instrument...are something very special. I've found that my fertile myrtle bass offers this tone in spades, and I still think of this sound as "home" as it pertains to the Roscoe brand. Borrowing from another TBer, KJung, I really think this is what makes a Roscoe a Roscoe. Electronics designed/modified/individualized to the exact specs of the cat who puts his name on the bass. Bada boom. You can substitute "Roscoe" with a handful of other select brands (MTD, Smith, etc.) and come to the same conclusion - it's what makes a "Fill in the Blank" a "Fill in the Blank." Start messing with that equation, and things can get dangerous. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, but you're undoubtedly in uncharted waters. Other brands (Lull, Lakland, etc.) do this by default. When it works, it's awesome. (I've got a Lull with Duncan SC's and a Bart NTMB, and I wouldn't trade it for anything....but I spent more than eight years playing Lull basses until I found one that worked for me.)

Now's the part where you call me a hypocrite. And I'm guilty as charged. Why? Because as much as I love fertile myrtle, my other two Roscoes have different electronics. One of 'em is a whole other animal...Nord DC's and an Aguilar OPB-3. Before trying this one, I played two other Roscoes with those electronics and....couldn't get a sound out of either one. Not even close, in fact. I didn't expect to like this one, and was absolutely blown away when I plugged it in. Here's the mystery question, though...do I like it because of the electronics, or is there just some Elfin magic happening between the incredibly tight grain of the ash body, the thick maple top, and the ridiculous wenge wedge neck? I haven't the slightest idea, but I'm glad I found the bass and was able to make it mine. My point, though, is that while there's certainly some "Roscoe" in the overall sound of the bass, there is a lot more aggression in there. I've thought of it as a Roscoe-on-steroids, but the more I play it I realize that there's much more to it. It's a very unique sounding instrument that fortunately fits right in my wheelhouse.

My fretless? Another little mystery, although I think I have this one solved. Bart pickups, but another OBP-3 pre. My "bass rabbi" - the fellow who sold me the bass, and a dozen others over the past 18 years - shares with me a philosophy about fretless electric basses. Basically, when you take frets out of the equation, you lose a chunk of upper mids. In this case, the OBP-3, with its inherent aggressiveness in this range, puts 'em right back. Accordingly, my fretless sounds like a Roscoe. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

So, where does this leave us? As my college economics professor shared, the answer is: it depends. What works for you? Borrowing again from a post above, this is the most important question we can ask ourselves. In many cases, my fertile myrtle IS the sound in my head, and combining that with the playability of the instrument, I'm totally in 'the zone' when I play that bass. I'm fearless - which isn't always a good thing - but point being that the instrument becomes less of a tool and more of a vehicle for creative energy. In more scientific terms, it becomes the constant in the equation, and the only variable is me - my ability to hear and interact with the other musicians.

Anyway, excuse the length here...I guess the important point I'm trying to make is to trust your ears, while simultaneously placing some value on the ideas and creativity of the craftsmanship behind the bass. Trying to make a Roscoe into something outside the original design parameters may be a good thing or a bad thing...but if you decide to pursue, good luck...you may just find a diamond in the rough.

[Darkstrike]

Very interesting guys, very interesting indeed, I totally gey you guys on the "don't expect a world of change" and "don't mess with a good thing" vibes.

LightGroove, I done the same one time, also not to a Roscoe, I have one bass, I'm not completly happy with, added a preamp, changed the preamp, gutted the preamp, changed the pickups, routed for bigger pickups, tried the bigger pickups with a preamp, gutted the preamp and added in switches, removed the switches. Still not completly happy with it, but I've made my peace with it, does one thing well, and I leave it at that now.

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Anyway, excuse the length here...

You know we love a long post here, when it's filled with information as valuable as you just posted.

The main thing I'm interested in, is just to see what odd(for a Roscoe, that is) setups have been done to Rosoces, we see a lot with various Barts(of course), and plenty with Nordstrands, I was just curious if there were more out there with other pickups, like Gregs Bardens, and PacoFrastorius & Shiveringbass's Delanos.

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

So, where does this leave us? As my college economics professor shared, the answer is: it depends. What works for you?

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.... Man, too bad there's 3000 miles between us, we'd hang and be friends for sure...