Tapered strings and Roscoe

[vilkai]

Originally Posted by Gard

...not diggin' the tapered B, E, & A strings, I'm guessin' there's some wonkyness happening with the tone on those...they never quite work on our basses...

I recently bought a second CSVI (which reminds me, need to give positive feedback) and promptly changed strings. I had a leftover set of F-Bass La Bellas exposed cores and set the new CSVI up. Love the feel, very elastic, even soft, while allowing a relatively low action. Low action for a Roscoe == REALLY low action, me mates!

However, playing anything above the 5th fret (ya, I know, no money there! But I like to go widdley-widdley-wee at home) is aurally painful, as the harmonics are wildly out of tune! I snagged a set of Rotosounds for it and it's back to normal.

As I was all out of new strings, I got a couple of DR sets... But for some reason ('Oo, a NEW PRODUCT? NEED TO SAMPLE!') I checked the box for 'long neck' sets. And they have tapered d-B strings. Set the Koa CSVI up with those last night - and it's now impossible to play it, as everything on the d to B strings has horrible out of tune harmonics.

Why is this? I was able to use tapers or even exposed cores with the F Bass, Skjold and the Smith, but not with the Roscoe? It's not much of a loss, as I've found through testing that my favourite strings are DR Fat Beams and Sunbeams, which don't come with tapered strings. Just curious as to the reason, and whether anyone else has this problem?

[Gard]

We've known about this for quite some time, I believe it has something to do with the magnets in our pickups pulling on the strings a bit more than some other pickups.

Frankly, I have played around with the taperwound strings over the years, and found that they have more drawbacks than advantages - they really don't intonate well, and even on other basses I've noticed the "warbling" thing happen as you get up the neck a bit.

[Pete skjold]

It definately has to do with the magnets and a small core at the bridge which allows the string to be pulled by the magnets irregularly because there is less mass at the bridge. BUT, another thing Gard touched on which is probably more resposible is that those type of strings require a different intonation point due to the smaller footprint on the saddle. It sounds like the intonation was just enough out to cause the harmonic content to be out and audible.

I have done a lot of experiments with the tapered and exposed core strings ( as a player ) and the only string I like the sound of tapered is a B-string but only if it is bigger than a .125 otherwise I like the regular non-tapered Bs.

Just my experience,

[Gard]

Thanks for chiming in Pete! Hope all's well there....

I agree on the string size thing, and we use a .125 B as a stock string. Works just perfectly, and I have not had really good results with bigger strings, .130 is OK, but personally I prefer the .125 (I use DR strings myself, our stock strings are a custom set of D'Addario).

[Darkstrike]

It's happened to me with any bass I've tried tapered strings on, not just Roscoes.

A shame, as I really want to try Rotosound Piano Designs.

[Pete skjold]

Well the benifit of tapered strings is the addition of more harmonic content which would be great if you were playing only open strings. But, since a fretted instrument is never really 100% in-tune the more harmonic overtones and fundementals the more you are going to draw attention to it ( Being out of tune). So maybe fretless

[Jim Nazium]

Here's what I'm wondering about (and I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to continue the discussion and hopefully learn something): when I set up my bass with regular strings, the lower strings have their bridge saddles farther back. B is the farthest back, then E, then A, etc. When I set it up with tapered core strings, the bridge saddles all end up at almost the same distance from the nut. Doesn't that mean that the tapered core B and E require less compensation at the bridge, and are therefore closer to exactly 35" long, and therefore intonate more accurately?

[Gard]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

Here's what I'm wondering about (and I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to continue the discussion and hopefully learn something): when I set up my bass with regular strings, the lower strings have their bridge saddles farther back. B is the farthest back, then E, then A, etc. When I set it up with tapered core strings, the bridge saddles all end up at almost the same distance from the nut. Doesn't that mean that the tapered core B and E require less compensation at the bridge, and are therefore closer to exactly 35" long, and therefore intonate more accurately?

Jim, I think Pete hit the points on this - theoretically, and for JUST the 12th fret harmonic, I think that the tapered core string should intonate pretty accurately. However, in the REAL WORLD, where that string is vibrating with all of the different overtones, you get some oddities happening. Add that to the lack of mass at the string allowing the magnetic pull of the pickups to affect the vibration of the string, and you get...issues...

My problems have been poor intonation, bad pitch, weird overtones, "double beating", and a few other irritations.

Despite the cold theoretical advantages of the tapered end, the real life results don't add up to a positive thing, IME.

[T. B. Player]

I've only tried tapered once (not on a Roscoe) and it was the only time I've ever broken a bass string on a gig. Maybe just a little imperfection on the bridge ground away at it.

I forgot about the Black Beauties though...since I'm hanging on to Darth, I'll have to try them.

Z

[VroomVroom]

Originally Posted by Gard

My problems have been ... double beating.... irritations.

Yeah, but in fairness, those go back to puberty.

Originally Posted by Gard

Despite the cold theoretical advantages of the tapered end, the real life results don't add up to a positive thing, IME.

Silly me on this, 'cause I always thought it was just a means of getting really low action. FWIW, I've come to see the light, but intonation was only a concern on one Roscoe I've played. On my fertile myrtle bass, for example, I ran MTD (SS) strings for nearly two years...lotsa' gigs and sessions (with some notes up high, where the money usually isn't ) with exactly zero issues. The main reason I went away from them was QC issues with Dean Markley - I loved the sound and playability up until that point. It did give me the opportunity to fall in love with DR strings, which obviously play very nicely in the Roscoe sandbox.

Back to that one Roscoe, with those same (MTD) strings, it was impossible to intonate the low 'B' - there simply wasn't enough space on the bridge. And the 'E' wasn't too far behind. So, I can definitely see the logic, and I appreciate (and have come to respect) the Roscoe warning against using such strings.

[red_rhino]

Interesting and timely thread for me. I love, love, love the B on my Roscoe, and that has me wanting to experiment with different strings on my MTD 635. In general I've always had pretty good luck with the MTD SS strings with only occasional QC issues (less than I've had with other Dean Markly strings). The lower notes on the B are just beautiful, especially when used for what I refer to as "widely spaced" chords. But I really want to tighten up the sound on the upper notes. The next set of string I put on will be non-taper.

I remember seeing a thread some time ago on another board regarding taper core B's. A rep from TI chimed in to explain that the taper changes the way in which the string oscillates. That may or may not be a good thing depending upon what you're after.

-Alan