What Cab?

CLJMB · #1 08-31-2009, 05:59 PM

I am in need of some advice from fellow Roscoeheads. I love the tone of my Roscoe direct, but I am having a very difficult time finding a cab that I am happy with. I have an ash bodied SKB 5er with Nordies, an Aggie pre and an ebony board and use a Little Mark II head. I have tried an Epifani UL-112, a Berg HT-112 (both of which sounded pretty boxy to me), a Schroeder 1210, and an Acme Low B-2 (which has a very nice low end but is TOO polite in the mids).

I don't live in a location where I can go try out decent bass gear easily. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig

LightGroove · #2 08-31-2009, 06:07 PM

I'm slightly confused...you have what amp in your heading but are discussing cabs in your post? Are you looking for a setup overhaul or?

What sound are you looking for for starters??

Also worthy mentioning....Strings do play a huuuuuuuuuuge role in your sound as well and may be a cheaper alternative.

CLJMB · #3 08-31-2009, 08:36 PM

Well yes that is a bit confusing isn't it.

Title should be which cab

and has been corrected. Yes I am looking for cab recommendations.

Regarding strings, I'm using DR Black Beauties, and I really like the sound if I go direct to the board. Slight mid and bass boost on the Aggie pre and it sounds great. Just haven't found a cab I like that comes close to my sound direct. My direct sound is fat yet has good growl. Seems like I can only get one or the other (fatness or growl) out of a cab. I thought the Acme would get me there but, as I said, unlike the other cabs which were too mid heavy (and yes I tried turning down the mids on the pre to no avail), the Acmes go to the other extreme and are too mid shy for my tastes. Perhaps Accugroove?

VroomVroom · #4 08-31-2009, 10:24 PM

If you're into the single 12" thing, I'd highly recommend peeking at an Aguilar GS112. I'm also VERY much digging my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0-12T combo (and I just picked up the 12" extension cab...which makes things even more sexy).

I had an AccuGroove Tri-112L for a while, and I loved running my Roscoe through it. Another great cab, with a lot going for it. There are definitely some great options out there...good luck!

()smoke() · #5 08-31-2009, 10:40 PM

as someone who went from a couple of accugroove tri112Ls to a couple of acme low B2s, i can concur with vroomvroom on the tri112L--those cabs really emphasize the midrange

personally, i found the emphasis a bit much, and although it might seem odd coming from someone who's primary gig is a 4-piece rock band with twin guitars and a drummer who loves bruford and hits like bonzo, my roscoe actually has the midrange i need in spades, and i wanted something to get further underneath the frequencies of the other instruments

the accugrooves give ample low end for a 12, but the mids are very present...they did everything i needed well except for providing that 'pillow' underneath like the B2s...my roscoe is bart/bart, but something about the woods (maple top, pau ferro fb) and/or neck stiffness, gives it a very bright, present sound with a strong midrange, so it works very well with the B2s...

one thing i will mention is that the B2s allow a more present top-end than the tri112s, with the tweeter they employ vs the soft dome tweeter of the accugrooves--be aware of this, but with your bass, it might be plenty of highs for you

LightGroove · #6 09-01-2009, 05:22 AM

Are you using the MBII as your DI?

Just making sure we're dealing with the same apples to apples comparison. DI vs. Live

Also...when you say direct...are you going into headphones or a pa or..??

Im in the process of mixing and matching cabs right now with my shuttle 6.0... My first time through a single 12 shocked me...It was punchy but lacking something. I plugged it into a 210 ampeg I have and vastly different.

So...a lot of factors..

1.Budget- Guys can recommend simple $300 cabs or 1000 cabs

2.Weight - Do you care? You have ceramic and neo....
3.Expectations - Are you filling an auditorium or your bedroom?

Just let us know...

CLJMB · #7 09-01-2009, 05:59 AM

By direct I am referring to not using either the amp (or the amp's DI) or the cab. I lilke the sound of my Roscoe plugged straight into the board or through my EWI DI for recording, both through headphones and listening to it through speakers on playback. THE EWI is a clean fairly uncolored DI. I also like it straight into the board through headphones for practice. I don't, however, like it through my Radial JDI. The JDI adds too much of a mid honk to the sound. (It's also quite soft, I may have a bad one - so please no flames on the JDI comment - I know a lot of people love them).

I am not hung up on 12s and may need to try some other 10s.

To answer Light's questions:
Budget - Not critical (within reason - I will probably need two cabs so would like total cost to be $2000 or less)
Weight - Lighter is better but sound is primary concern. Size is actually more critical than weight since I don't think I can fit a 4x10 in my car.
Expectations - Loud enough to get over a drummer and use as a monitor on stage with a couple of not terribly loud guitarists. Full PA support - so no need for huge projection out in the room.

By the way i tried going direct with in-ears and loved the sound (using Westone UM-2s) but didn't like a lot of other things about them.

Thanks for any suggestions you can provide.

Gard · #8 09-01-2009, 08:09 AM

I'm using an Epifani UL310 Series II and love it to death, great mid presence, tons of low end response, nice and clear highs without being obnoxious. I will eventually add another. Weighs less than 45 lbs, and is a nice "in-between" size, not a big honkin' box like a 410 and not so small it's pointed at my ankles like a 210.

The only downside is that it, being an oddball speaker arrangement, has an oddball ohm rating of 5.3 ohms. I'm save with a pair, as my amp (Eden WT550, PRE-US Music) is stable to 2 ohms and has been as reliable as a Swiss watch, even run at 2 ohms and pushed hard. However, I'm not sure the MarkBass stuff will hold up to that load or not, as I'm not familiar with it.

I've tried to fall in love with 12" cabs for years and failed, just like the "immediacy" of the 10"s....

Oh yeah, and for reference, my primary fretted bass is a Century Signature VI solid swamp ash body, wenge wedge neck with an African tulipwood fingerboard, Nordstrand Fat Stack pickups and an Aguilar OBP-3 preamp.

otto B · #9 09-01-2009, 09:14 AM

I'm Got Genz Benz UBBER 2x12 and Genz Benz Shuttle Max 6 and this 2 pieces produces one of the cleanest sound I have heard yet, I love this set up. If you can get a chance to try a Genz Benz Cab you will know what I mean.

VroomVroom · #10 09-01-2009, 09:18 AM

I'm totally in the same boat as Gard. I cherish my Epi 310's. (I generally use one, but with the two-channel amp, I can run two @ 5.3 ohms.) I've been hot & cold on 12's for over 10 years now, but I have to tell you...the Roscoes (and a few other basses) just sound incredible to my ears through the Genz Benz rig. That Shuttle is just something, and as much as I expected to be way underwhelmed with their 12" speakers, it's been the opposite. This weekend I had two gigs where I used the 2x12 setup, and the sound was just awesome. So much so that it was a mixed blessing...the feedback I got on the sound was great to hear, but I have a lot more money invested in my Epi stuff than I do my GB stuff. For folks to prefer the latter is kinda' like getting a great kiss...from your cousin.

I do hope you can experiment a bit to see what works for you. The one thing I've learned over the years is that there really is no one amp/cab combo that can do everything....just like there's no one bass that can do everything. I tend to reach for stuff that does something really well, and then use it on the gigs that highlight that something.

CrashClint · #11 09-01-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLJMB

I am in need of some advice from fellow Roscoeheads. I love the tone of my Roscoe direct, but I am having a very difficult time finding a cab that I am happy with. I have an ash bodied SKB 5er with Nordies, an Aggie pre and an ebony board and use a Little Mark II head. I have tried an Epifani UL-112, a Berg HT-112 (both of which sounded pretty boxy to me), a Schroeder 1210, and an Acme Low B-2 (which has a very nice low end but is TOO polite in the mids).

I don't live in a location where I can go try out decent bass gear easily. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig

Not to be brutal, but you have an aggressive preamp in your bass and you are putting it through a Little Mark II head that has a natural mid tone so you are really doubling the bite going to your speakers.

I have an SKB with Nords and Ash body but with a Demeter preamp. To me, the EA and Genz amps coupled with a Epifani UL410 can't be beat. Nice solid bass, you can dial some agressive mids if you need to and the highs are sweet buy not brittle.

I was at GC this weekend with a friend and they have both the Little Mark and a used GB shuttle 6.0. Even going through the Mark Bass 410 cab, the GB Shuttle sounded so much better and you are able to really dial down the mids if you want, not so much with the Little Mark. Just my observation.

JOME77 · #12 09-01-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLJMB

I am in need of some advice from fellow Roscoeheads. I love the tone of my Roscoe direct, but I am having a very difficult time finding a cab that I am happy with. I have an ash bodied SKB 5er with Nordies, an Aggie pre and an ebony board and use a Little Mark II head. I have tried an Epifani UL-112, a Berg HT-112 (both of which sounded pretty boxy to me), a Schroeder 1210, and an Acme Low B-2 (which has a very nice low end but is TOO polite in the mids).

I don't live in a location where I can go try out decent bass gear easily. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig

Hey Craig,
Since I've heard that bass through a pair of Epi UL112's and Berg HT112's, powered by a Tfunk 550 and Eden 550 and it didn't sound boxy (which I interpet to be same as honky?) I would have to conclude that you may want to try a different head to get your sound.
I've owned a LMII and while I didn't use it but a few times, I wan't really into it's overall tone.
You bass just kills through either the Epi or Berg 112's with the Eden or Thunderfunk. Awesome tone IMO. Anything but boxy!

Basso Gruvitas · #13 09-01-2009, 11:13 AM

Did I miss the traditional "What style of music do you play" post? Sorry if I did. That will also narrow the search.

+1 on Clint's post. All cabs are going to sound tame through a "lower powered" class D amp.

Also, +1 on Gard's post about 10's vs 12's. I like 12's - but if you want more immediacy and "aggressiveness" from the tone, I would look at a 410.

Depending on how "aggressive" or "not polite" you want your tone to be, have you looked at an Ampeg cab? I don't care for them myself but for a very "present" tone, this is a good alternative.

VroomVroom · #14 09-01-2009, 11:20 AM

Good points on style. I was focusing mostly on size - assuming that replacing a single 12" cab meant something of similar scope. To my ears, there is NOTHING like my Epi 410, but it's just way too much cab for most of my gigs. The 310 really tucks in there nicely, but still...while it sounds good at low volumes/in small rooms, it really starts to sound great when pushed a bit.

Echo on the LM stuff...I just haven't heard anything that speaks to me. Similarly, I love my Shuttle 6.0...but not through the Epi cabs. This all just reinforces that it takes experimentation to find out what works for you. I wish I had a few bucks for every rig through which other players sound GREAT, yet when I plug in I get bitter bass face.

LilRay · #15 09-01-2009, 12:24 PM

Jerry, When you paired the GB Head with the Epi 3-10 what turned you off? I am considering updating my rig but don't know which direction to head. I like Epi's size, weight and footprint but I don't know as much as I should when it comes to this stuff. I'm lost.

God Bless, Ray

VroomVroom · #16 09-01-2009, 01:08 PM

Ray, not that you aren't doing so, but keep in mind that my ears are a dangerous thing. Your opinion may vary greatly. Some folks dig the Shuttle/Epi 10" combo, and you may very well agree. For me, it's really sterile sounding. More open, for sure, and more mid-focused, but nothing really pleasing. A fellow player on a gig commented that the rig sounded very "solid-state" - kinda' like the old GK or Hartke stuff. That was a pretty accurate assessment, IMO.

Ironically....the ShuttleMAX 12, with its solid-state pre (in addition to the tube pre, of course) sounds GREAT to my ears with the Epi. Who woulda' thought that a solid state pre would sound more tube-ish? Like I said, my ears are a dangerous thing.

If it helps, AND if you can excuse the slop, here are some samples:

Roscoe fretted myrtle through Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 w/ 12" cab.

Same through Shuttle 6.0 w/ Epi UL-310-2

-------

Roscoe fretless through Shuttle 6.0 w/ 12" cab

Same through Shuttle 6.0 w/ Epi UL-310-2

LilRay · #17 09-01-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Ray, not that you aren't doing so, but keep in mind that my ears are a dangerous thing. Your opinion may vary greatly. Some folks dig the Shuttle/Epi 10" combo, and you may very well agree. For me, it's really sterile sounding. More open, for sure, and more mid-focused, but nothing really pleasing. A fellow player on a gig commented that the rig sounded very "solid-state" - kinda' like the old GK or Hartke stuff. That was a pretty accurate assessment, IMO.

Ironically....the ShuttleMAX 12, with its solid-state pre (in addition to the tube pre, of course) sounds GREAT to my ears with the Epi. Who woulda' thought that a solid state pre would sound more tube-ish? Like I said, my ears are a dangerous thing.

If it helps, AND if you can excuse the slop, here are some samples:

Roscoe fretted myrtle through Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 w/ 12" cab.

Same through Shuttle 6.0 w/ Epi UL-310-2

-------

Roscoe fretless through Shuttle 6.0 w/ 12" cab

Same through Shuttle 6.0 w/ Epi UL-310-2

Jerry, You're a helluva guy. Thanks for the clips.

Gard, I nominate Jerry to be Roscoes "Ed Friedland" reviewer. You guys should consider sending him Roscoes to capture sound clips, and amass a Roscoe Sound Library. You ask Jerry "What's this combo sound like?" Wait a few and Blam Sound Clips

That'd end all the "What's the Wedge Neck sound like" etc.

Just an idea, although I am a Texan and a Cowboys fan

God Bless, Ray

VroomVroom · #18 09-01-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRay

Gard, I nominate Jerry to be Roscoes "Ed Friedland" reviewer. You guys should consider sending him Roscoes to capture sound clips, and amass a Roscoe Sound Library. You ask Jerry "What's this combo sound like?" Wait a few and Blam Sound Clips

Ahh, our good friend, Ed Friedland. I'll stop there...

Sure wouldn't turn down the opportunity to test drive Roscoes, though.

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRay

That'd end all the "What's the Wedge Neck sound like" etc.

Wedge #1

Wedge #2

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRay

although I am a Texan and a Cowboys fan

It's okay. We're your friends and are here to help.

Thanks, Ray...good stuff!

CLJMB · #19 09-01-2009, 03:41 PM

Joe - you know this bass well - so I think I am going to your and several others advice and look into another amp such as the Eden or TFunk and see where that takes me. I have never played through either of those amps. I was under the impression that a TFunk has some mid push. I am also under the impression that the newer Edens are not what they once were (particularly with regard to reliability). Are either of these accurate?

Thanks all for your advice and respopnses.

LightGroove · #20 09-01-2009, 08:44 PM

Well my new Roscoe landed today Its Aguilar/Roscoe Bart setup

Ran it through a GB shuttle 6.0 and my airhead ampeg 210.
The Neox212 will be Thurs.

Hi frequency button pushed in and the most extreme upper mids cut out.
Bass has minor bass boost and full on treble (i was fighting flats) and it just killed....looking forward to full on PA this Thurs.

Back to the OP...

It sounds like you nailed your first issue if the head/di is out of the mix and you like it and then dont like it when its added...Have you used the MB DI at all?? is it post or pre?

I know MB gets really loved on throughout these boards but might not be a good match. Id start used and on the lower spectrum of prices..you may find your tone cheaply...used you can turn over if it isnt for you and may lose shipping $$

You start talking EPI,Berg, Thunderfunk your getting into some dough. While im not against good stuff be realistic with what you are playing and can afford.

You may also look into the Aguilar tone hammer and a power amp route...cheap way into the Aggie world but again back to aggresive tone.