Balancing Commitments..

[bass349]

Hi Janek,

I play with a fairly successful covers group with a pop/top 40/disco/rnb type rep. The band gigs regularly fridays (usually a pub/club gig) and most saturdays are corporate gigs/weddings etc (which pay really, really well). They are all really decent players as well (the drummer and guitarist i studied jazz with at uni), which makes the gig a lot more enjoyable than any other covers type stuff i have done filling in with other bands etc. We often do instrumental jazz and groove sets in our wedding gigs and it's great in that in the same group I get the opportunity to play in fairly diverse musical situations.

My problem is that i seem to increasingly be being offered other gigs with other players, usually clashing with my friday and saturday night commitments. I'm not saying it happens every week, but i've had enough calls to warrant me thinking about this anyway.

I feel that i can't leave my covers band if i want to continue living off of playing music. Some of the best gigs in town (musically, not dollars) don't pay close to half of what i get for corporate gigs. Basically i don't think i could support myself living off teaching and gigging if i was "freelancing".

As an example, last year around this time a mate called and told me to come down and have a play with this chick who was looking for a bassist and was about to start touring. I turned it down as it was coming into "corporate season" and i was going to be earing good money for the next 3 months or so. They ended up touring through canada and europe and played big festivals in front of large audiences. hmmm.

Obviously this is an extreme case, most of the gigs i would like to take are simple with great players in town for one-off gigs or doing a fill-in on a night where i already have a gig.

I would really love to hear your thoughts on this. I'm sure you are at the point now where you can pick and choose the gigs you want, but hopefully you have some insight here

All the best mate,

Andy

[Phil Smith]

If you already have a gig that you have comitted to, you are not available for another gig at the same time.

[tranceFusion]

the steady gigs pay less because you don't have to look for them.. you get paid less because you aren't spending half your time looking for the work.. it is the same as any other field in this country where permanent employees get paid half as much as contractors..

if you are a go-getter that doesn't mind taking financial risks and spending more time looking for work than working, with the possibility of ultimately making more, then get out of the weekly commitment. if you want to chill back and keep a steady paycheck than stick with the weekly commitment.

most people know their own personality well enough to make this choice easy..

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

If you already have a gig that you have comitted to, you are not available for another gig at the same time.

That's what subs are for, dude.

[bass349]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

If you already have a gig that you have comitted to, you are not available for another gig at the same time.

OK.. thats an interesting point of view i guess. I have used deps before (not for taking another gig but for situations outside of music), and we often have people subbing in our group so that is an option. But it is hard to keep that balance, and thats kinda what i was getting at, i'd like to hear some thoughts on how to achieve that balance of taking gigs you want and keeping well paid gigs. Would you sacrifice a great paid gig to do a decently paid gig with some killer players? Does anybody have their own rules, like they'll only get a dep for the regular gig once a month or something?

Originally Posted by Snarf

That's what subs are for, dude.

Originally Posted by tranceFusion

the steady gigs pay less because you don't have to look for them.. you get paid less because you aren't spending half your time looking for the work.. it is the same as any other field in this country where permanent employees get paid half as much as contractors..

I'm not sure if i agree with all that, at least not in my situation. Some of my steady work pays better than a lot of one-off gigs and fill ins. To be honest they're usually pretty similar.

Originally Posted by tranceFusion

...if you are a go-getter that doesn't mind taking financial risks and spending more time looking for work than working, with the possibility of ultimately making more, then get out of the weekly commitment. if you want to chill back and keep a steady paycheck than stick with the weekly commitment.

I just fail to see how this has anything to do with being a working musician. IME you can't just look for work, it comes to you the more your name gets around, and the more you play with people. You can be proactive and hang in the right circles and get your name out there, but this is totally not what i'm talking about.

Looking forward to hearing Janeks point of view on this one. From muso friends that i've asked everyone seems to have a different opinion and attitude in regards to how much they commit themselves to a regular gig.

thanks for the replys though.. some food for thought

all the best,
Andy

[Joe Nerve]

I think only you can answer your question. If you want the money, then you go where the money is. If you want the experience then you go with what moves you most trusting that the money will follow. And living on the edge. I'm in a similar situation and have to admit I'm struggling a bit lately with some decisions. I have a pretty big investment in a cover band that's starting to pay off, but conflicts are also starting to come up and it's getting difficult. I can have the stability of the well paying gig, or the excitement of being all over the place. I've always chosen the latter - probably still will...

OK... just thinking out loud here. Really want to hear everyone else's thoughts. Plugged in.

PS. My apologies if we're supposed to wait for Janek to respond first. Did I read somewhere that we're supposed to do that?

[StyleOverShow]

You don't sound committed to the covers band, and free-lancing is fun, particularly if the music is different and allows you to express yourself.

The downside is that your cover band will recover without your pretty soon and you might end up with the occasional gig.

I would follow my musical interests.

[bass349]

Hey Joe Nerve, good to hear it's not just me I do think it is possible, with a flexible band that won't fire you for missing gigs. Out of curiosity, do you rely on the cover band money as a major source of your weekly income? It's a fine line though for sure, would like to hear from anyone else in a similar situation and how you deal with it.

Styleovershow, I am committed. After 2 years of gigging every weekend (at least) i have had a dep maybe once or twice that i can remember. The one that i'm certain of is when i was a groomsman for my mates wedding - no getting out of that one! Up 'til this point in time i have turned down every gig that has clashed with my cover band commitment.

thanks for the replys,
Andy

[Joe Nerve]

I was going to continue my thinking out loud last night by rambling a bit about the cover band being flexible. When I started, the band was real flexible and they had a guy or 2 who would fill in if I weren't there. I didn't think much about it until we signed ourselves over to an agency. The stakes got higher, we got a couple of new guys in the group, and other bassists popped up who would happily climb on board full time. My position was discussed once already because of conflicts, and only since then has it become a concern. Means I now have to be a little more selective about my other gigs.

It helps that the other bands are willing to bend a little. I've doubled up many times and played 2 gigs in a night. If another band takes an 8 or 9 o'clock spot, I can usually still get to my cover gig. I also realized that the more indispensible I become the easier it is to stand my ground . The more I sing, add to the band in any way possible, choose obscure songs that not every bass player can nail in 5 minutes, work at medlys, do covers that we do our own versions of, basically become someone who won't be all that easily replaced - the more room I have to do other gigs without all that much concern.

I keep a tight calendar, notify bands the second a gig is even considered, and I admittingly sweat it a lot of times. My heart is in the original scene, the tours, and doing my own thing - so my motivations help push me to the less stable side of things. Life is easy with a steady gig and security. But it also gets dull for me. Taking the other road has been a roller coaster ride. Still want the roller coaster I guess. I believe it keeps me young.

[Alan Vorse]

I too have a similar conundrum. I am in a corporate/covers type group that plays most weekends, but that is not a guarantee. I also play in another cover band that gigs regularly but less often, 2 original rock bands and a jazz quartet that does original material, plus I get called for gigs.

On the one hand, I've made a committment to this band, so I guess I'm expected to make it a priority. The other angle is that this guy should be calling the musicians to see if they are available, not just announcing that there are gigs and you better be there (like what happened to me recently).

I think having 1 or 2 people you could line up as a sub and/or having a book of charts with a disc of the music is the way to go. Sure, if you send a sub too many times, the band leader might just decide to go with someone else, but that's kind of how the music biz works.

[tranceFusion]

Originally Posted by bass349

I just fail to see how this has anything to do with being a working musician. IME you can't just look for work, it comes to you the more your name gets around, and the more you play with people. You can be proactive and hang in the right circles and get your name out there, but this is totally not what i'm talking about.

Even if you do nothing to promote yourself, network, play free/cheap gigs, etc in order to drive new business, my point really was that there is alot of overhead doing a one-off gig that you don't have when you have a weekly spot locked down. Shuffling a changing schedule with your personal life, making calls back and forth to set it up, etc..

and I thought YOU were the one that said your weekly gig paid less than the one-offs.. thought maybe I interpreted your sentence incorrectly.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Snarf

That's what subs are for, dude.

Yeah, but in this context the money is an issue and the money from the gig he's "committed" to is way more than that of the other gig. If the money were not the issue a sub would be the obvious choice and one wouldn't have to worry about making ends meet.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by bass349

OK.. thats an interesting point of view i guess. I have used deps before (not for taking another gig but for situations outside of music), and we often have people subbing in our group so that is an option. But it is hard to keep that balance, and thats kinda what i was getting at, i'd like to hear some thoughts on how to achieve that balance of taking gigs you want and keeping well paid gigs. Would you sacrifice a great paid gig to do a decently paid gig with some killer players? Does anybody have their own rules, like they'll only get a dep for the regular gig once a month or something?

I would sub out a regular well paying gig to do a gig with some killer players irrespective of what it paid. For me it's a no brainer since you get a different playing experience and other opportunites because of it. In the end it all depends on why you're doing what you do. If you can't afford to take chances, you can't really take chances.

This concept was implicit in my initial post. Because of the money, you're a bit limited in what decisions you can make. If you didn't need the money we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[janekbass]

wow, long thread already....

My view of it all is pretty simple, but it really only works if you're of a similar mindset when it comes to making music your life.

I have done less than ten covers gigs in my life I think. I've done two, possibly three weddings since I moved to the US 10 years ago, and two of those were favors at the last minute because the band leader was desperate just to have a bass player there.

I have gone without food, nightlife, fancy clothes, car, etc. etc... to concentrate on the music and do what I feel is right. I could have joined an agency as soon as I moved to NYC and already have bought a house from that by now. It's a lucrative business, but I personally couldn't play the same stuff to the same drunk wedding goers every weekend.

Don't get me wrong, it almost killed me, made me depressed, and left me without work for a number of years, but in the end it's paid off for me. It doesn't suit everyone, it's just the way I approached it. And I do have a pretty extreme view of what I want out of music, and that doesn't involve playing in cover bands. That's not to say it isn't right. Sh*t, a lot of people I know make a fantastic living from doing those gigs, and are really happy doing it. It's just not for me.

On the topic of balancing your gigs... it doesn't matter what your staple gig situation is, it's all the same. I have a commitment to a pop artist right now for a world tour, and had to turn down a two week tour in japan playing jazz..... I don't even have dates in the book with the pop artist for that time, but I have to be on call as I'm on a retainer for this tour.

I think the first thing you have to do is ask yourself how much you really want to do all that less paid but better music type stuff. If you want it that badly then forget about playing stevie wonder tunes on a saturday night in front of drunk people, downsize your financial outgoings every month, spend an extra 4 hours a day shedding, and go out and make a name for yourself as a kick ass bass player who can survive as a sideman working freelance.

The answer is not pretty, and sometimes not a lot of fun if you decide that you really need to do these gigs that conflict with your bread and butter gigs, but it is what it is. You have to make a decision, and stick with it. There's no room for going back and forth about it all cos by the time you figure it out the time will have passed.

One thing that I heard from people when I moved to the States from London who were 10 years older or more than me, was that they wished they had done it when they were my age. At the time I moved here a lot of them had families, steady gigs, commitments etc.... You should commit to yourself before anything else, and do what is ultimately going to make you happy. That unfortunately may be detrimental to certain things you're used to in your life, and may not always make you happy in your every day routine. But speaking as someone who made that choice over ten years ago, I'm very happy with where I ended up. I'm a musician, I get to tour the world, I get to play with some of the most interesting people around, I have a great place to live, and a beautiful girlfriend who i get on great with, and can support in anything she does. It's pretty simple to talk about it after the fact, now I have achieved some of these things, but giving up a fiancee, my family, my friends, my home country, and all the gigs I had before I left was a huge sacrifice to make not knowing exactly what was going to happen in the end. But it's what you have to do if you want to take it to the next level and fulfill whatever musical dreams and aspirations you might have.

We kind of got off the balancing gigs thing a little bit, but I think what I've talked about is way more relevant. Once you've made the decision you don't have to worry about balancing anything. You need to be able to let it all go, and know that what happens happens for a reason, and there's nothing you can do about it. I've had to turn down a trio tour with Mike Stern and Dennis Chambers to do a tour I was already commited to in Europe with Jojo Mayer's Nerve. Am I bitter about it? no way. Mike is a beautiful human being, and before I knew it we were on the road 6 months later in Mexico with an amazing band. And jojo is simply one of the greatest drummers, musicians, and human beings I know so it's a joy to work with him whenever I get the chance. The tour was amazing and I never thought twice about the stern/chambers thing. So trust me, getting offered things you want to take that clash with each other will happen for the rest of your career. Having the opportunity to go and tour with the singer you talked about won't always come up. Forget about money, and ask yourself honest questions about what you want out of music, and then more importantly answer those questions honestly so you end up being happy in whatever you do.

I wish you the best of luck, and look forward to hearing from you again.

Easy,

Janek

[bass349]

Janek,

I am blown away by your dedication to the craft. That post was incredible. There is so much for me to absorb in there, so much to think about. I have to say it is really inspiring to hear your story. Thanks muchly - it really does put a lot of stuff in perspective for me.

At the moment i'm saving like crazy to get up and leave this country and head to the US. I have to admit i'm terrified of leaving steady gigs, steady teaching jobs, and a network of musicians where i know i will get more and more work the longer i hang around. But i haven't worked this hard already to be a cover band muso for the rest of my life. I think if i do i will end up being one of those guys who's 40 and realise i never took that chance. And i know way too many of those guys in this town already. To me, that's a very scary thought.

After reading your post a few things became very clear to me. I remembered why i was in that covers group - to make money. The fact that they're good players is a bonus and makes the job more enjoyable, but i need to stay focused on the fact that if i don't keep a gig like that i'm going to have to (eeek) work a "real" job to get my savings together. In the meantime i'll keep using this extra time that i've given myself by gigging weekends and teaching about 4 arvo's a week to shed and work my arse off towards being a better and more employable bassist.

Again, you're an inspiration buddy, thanks for that post and all your advice that you give on this board.

All the best,
Andy

[Juniorkimbrough]

If it were me I'd try a few of the fill in gigs that pay less here and there just to see what may come of them. You never know til you try.

But like someone else said, it's up to you and how bad you need the money from the corporate gigs.

[mrkode]

Maybe the NYC scene is different but I just couldn't apply this here.

I'm soon to be 34 and been trying to make a living out of freelancing since I left university and still need to have a day job. Up until now for 2008 I only had something like 20 gigs. Even if I let go of my car, moving in with a roomate into a crappy cheap place, didn't spend on clothes, restaurant etc... and concentrated on shedding, I still would need a day job to get by. There is simply not enough work for every musician in town.

And it doesn't have anything to do with how good or dedicated you are. Just this summer, I've seen some big players thinking about opening up an ice cream stand to get by as they had no work. One of the busiest player in town is even thinking of leaving the biz altogether and opening up a restaurant. And we're not talking about cover bands but big session guys. There is simply not enough work and it's not paying well.

So is it just a matter of the scene around here?

I have a friend who moved to NYC something like 5 years ago and is struggling to get by. I considered moving to London and upon enquiring about it here on the forum, been told that the situation is as tough over there.

So with all due respect Janek, and this is no questioning of how skilled and competent you are, but maybe you were at the right place at the right time and a bit of luck was involved in how things turned out for you?

Or maybe I haven't got the right take on it and on how to run my carreer, I don't know.

Peace

Marco

[janekbass]

Marco,

I think location has everything to do with it. You're in Montreal correct? I would never in a million years think about being a musician outside of a covers band scene there. There just isn't the work. There is rarely the work outside of about 5 metropolitan areas across the world. It's just a question of how much you're willing to put into what you do. Like I said before, you have to ask yourself some pretty heavy questions and answer them honestly about where you're at in your life, your music, and yourself.

If luck had had anything to do with where I am right now I think that would be some of the most lousy luck of all. If it was luck I wouldn't have stories to tell you of constantly being f**ked over on gigs, sessions, tours, teaching. you name it. I've been through it and seen it all. In fact I'm pretty sure I haven't seen half of what I will in the rest of my life in terms of this business being completely unlucky and dreadful. I'm not 22, I'm not a girl, (and I don't mean that in a sexist way towards women, I mean that in the way that every narrow minded male responds to a female who can play a musical instrument well, in a way far beyond the way they would respond to a male of the same ability) Meshell N'egeocello is by far my favorite bass player alive today, if not of all time. I think Tal Wilkenfeld has an incredible talent and a fantastic groove. Gail ann dorsey, Suzi Quatro, Tina Weymouth, Cheryl Crow, Carol Kaye, Rhonda Smith..... all simply amazing bass players who I admire greatly. But it's the narrow mindedness of most members of the listening public that see someone like Tal WIlkenfeld hold a bassline together and play a solo, and they lose their minds. Like this is something that has never been done before. So no, luck I don't think has played much of a part in my career. And being in the right place at the right time has also had very little to do with it. I moved to NYC. that is the right place. Anyone can move there. It's what they do with it once they're there that makes the difference and gives birth to the music.

I also can't imagine what "heavy sessions players" you're referring to when you talk about them opening ice cream stores or just getting out of the business altogether. Number one there are only a handful of "heavy sessions players" in the entire world, and none of them live in montreal.

You have Neil Stubenhaus Marcus Miller, and Nathan East that live in LA. You have Anthony Jacckson and Will Lee that live in NYC, and you have Pino Paladino who lives in London. Aside from those guys I can think of legends like Lee Sklar who is busy like mad, Tony Levin, Joe Osborn, and a few names that excape me right now. But you're talking about guys who aren't going anywhere, who aren't giving up any of there work to anyone younger for one simple reason. There is no session scene anymore. I've talked about this so much on this forum. there are no more million $ budgets for pop albums, lavish studio session filled with coke and dozens of musicians that run for weeks on end. Everyone has a home studio, programs the heck out of drums, strings and anything else they might be good at, and pretty much shuts off any kind of scene for a "session musician". there's just no such thing anymore. That was for the 70's 80's and some of the 90's, and now we're in a different place with technology. I do sessions for tv, movies, ADR, albums all at my home studio. I play 5 different instruments pretty well so I rarely have to hire anyone else to come by, and I'm normally the producer on the record date which is why I'm involved in playing music on a recording in the first place. I might play on up to 20 albums a year and I'll normally be the producer on all of them. I think this year alone I've been hired for only one album as a sideman, and now six months after the date I'm actually being hired to finish the production. It's just the way the scene is.

I think you just need to go back to the drawing board and be realistic about where you live and what's available there. Don't get me wrong, you won't actually make that much money playing IN NYC, but that's where you'll make connections and get on some bigger touring or playing situation that takes you around the world to make money. Los Angeles, where I'm spending a good deal of time working on a pop gig right now, is also a very healthy scene if you're looking for a touring gig. There are lots of pop/rock acts looking for musicians and going on the road paying pretty decent money. But beware, there is this myth about what decent money is on the road. Tales of Eric Clapton and mariah Carey type gigs. They no longer exist in such large numbers as they did 10 or 20 years ago. So once you're in a scene you're hardly ever going to be looking at more than about $1500 a week for a young pop/rock/R&B act.

The bottom line is that you can't do what I'm talking about if you're going to live in Montreal. If you move anywhere - NYC, LA, London, Nashville.... you're going to struggle for a while to get settled. That's just how it is. The question is: how badly do you want it? I've been in the states for 10 years this month, and it's been a constant battle from week to week to make stuff happen. Now it becomes a little more relaxed in the sense that I'm slightly more known as a player than I was when I moved here, but I'm sure there are a 1000 bass players you could walk up to in the next month who wouldn't have a clue who I was. and there are certainly about 98% of the producers in the world who have no idea who I am either. It's a life long mission, and one I'm very happy to carry on with without thinking twice about it.

Music makes me happy. Playing the bass makes me happy. I wouldn't have it any other way whether I be starving or driving a porsche.

Easy,

Janek

[mrkode]

Originally Posted by janekbass

Marco,

I think location has everything to do with it. You're in Montreal correct? I would never in a million years think about being a musician outside of a covers band scene there. There just isn't the work. There is rarely the work outside of about 5 metropolitan areas across the world. It's just a question of how much you're willing to put into what you do. Like I said before, you have to ask yourself some pretty heavy questions and answer them honestly about where you're at in your life, your music, and yourself.

If luck had had anything to do with where I am right now I think that would be some of the most lousy luck of all. If it was luck I wouldn't have stories to tell you of constantly being f**ked over on gigs, sessions, tours, teaching. you name it. I've been through it and seen it all. In fact I'm pretty sure I haven't seen half of what I will in the rest of my life in terms of this business being completely unlucky and dreadful. I'm not 22, I'm not a girl, (and I don't mean that in a sexist way towards women, I mean that in the way that every narrow minded male responds to a female who can play a musical instrument well, in a way far beyond the way they would respond to a male of the same ability) Meshell N'egeocello is by far my favorite bass player alive today, if not of all time. I think Tal Wilkenfeld has an incredible talent and a fantastic groove. Gail ann dorsey, Suzi Quatro, Tina Weymouth, Cheryl Crow, Carol Kaye, Rhonda Smith..... all simply amazing bass players who I admire greatly. But it's the narrow mindedness of most members of the listening public that see someone like Tal WIlkenfeld hold a bassline together and play a solo, and they lose their minds. Like this is something that has never been done before. So no, luck I don't think has played much of a part in my career. And being in the right place at the right time has also had very little to do with it. I moved to NYC. that is the right place. Anyone can move there. It's what they do with it once they're there that makes the difference and gives birth to the music.

I also can't imagine what "heavy sessions players" you're referring to when you talk about them opening ice cream stores or just getting out of the business altogether. Number one there are only a handful of "heavy sessions players" in the entire world, and none of them live in montreal.

You have Neil Stubenhaus Marcus Miller, and Nathan East that live in LA. You have Anthony Jacckson and Will Lee that live in NYC, and you have Pino Paladino who lives in London. Aside from those guys I can think of legends like Lee Sklar who is busy like mad, Tony Levin, Joe Osborn, and a few names that excape me right now. But you're talking about guys who aren't going anywhere, who aren't giving up any of there work to anyone younger for one simple reason. There is no session scene anymore. I've talked about this so much on this forum. there are no more million $ budgets for pop albums, lavish studio session filled with coke and dozens of musicians that run for weeks on end. Everyone has a home studio, programs the heck out of drums, strings and anything else they might be good at, and pretty much shuts off any kind of scene for a "session musician". there's just no such thing anymore. That was for the 70's 80's and some of the 90's, and now we're in a different place with technology. I do sessions for tv, movies, ADR, albums all at my home studio. I play 5 different instruments pretty well so I rarely have to hire anyone else to come by, and I'm normally the producer on the record date which is why I'm involved in playing music on a recording in the first place. I might play on up to 20 albums a year and I'll normally be the producer on all of them. I think this year alone I've been hired for only one album as a sideman, and now six months after the date I'm actually being hired to finish the production. It's just the way the scene is.

I think you just need to go back to the drawing board and be realistic about where you live and what's available there. Don't get me wrong, you won't actually make that much money playing IN NYC, but that's where you'll make connections and get on some bigger touring or playing situation that takes you around the world to make money. Los Angeles, where I'm spending a good deal of time working on a pop gig right now, is also a very healthy scene if you're looking for a touring gig. There are lots of pop/rock acts looking for musicians and going on the road paying pretty decent money. But beware, there is this myth about what decent money is on the road. Tales of Eric Clapton and mariah Carey type gigs. They no longer exist in such large numbers as they did 10 or 20 years ago. So once you're in a scene you're hardly ever going to be looking at more than about $1500 a week for a young pop/rock/R&B act.

The bottom line is that you can't do what I'm talking about if you're going to live in Montreal. If you move anywhere - NYC, LA, London, Nashville.... you're going to struggle for a while to get settled. That's just how it is. The question is: how badly do you want it? I've been in the states for 10 years this month, and it's been a constant battle from week to week to make stuff happen. Now it becomes a little more relaxed in the sense that I'm slightly more known as a player than I was when I moved here, but I'm sure there are a 1000 bass players you could walk up to in the next month who wouldn't have a clue who I was. and there are certainly about 98% of the producers in the world who have no idea who I am either. It's a life long mission, and one I'm very happy to carry on with without thinking twice about it.

Music makes me happy. Playing the bass makes me happy. I wouldn't have it any other way whether I be starving or driving a porsche.

Easy,

Janek

Of course, I was talking all proportions kept. I know I won't ever land a world touring gig here in Montreal unless I'm lucky enough to be part of a project that lands a big record deal. But then again, those doesn't seem to exist either anymore. However, some musicians are able to live very well by only gigging here. There is still some tv shows with house bands and acts touring throughout the province. So as long as you can manage to be part of a circle that's in the biz, you're fine.

As far as luck goes, you're right, you made some decisions and took actions. You moved to NYC, worked at it and made connections. And I wasn't implying that it was the only thing that came into play. I have no idea what your path was like so sorry if I came across the wrong way on that. It's just that you often read interviews with established bass players talking about never knowing who might be in the assistance and being at the right place at the right time to meet the proper people etc...

As for how bad I want it, I had never considered moving either to NYC or LA to be the only way to get where I want to be. Montreal might not be an international career stepping stone but there's definitely a scene here and like I just said, there are musicians making a good living out of it. My goal not being making 500 000$ a year but only being able to pay the bills doing what I love most, I figured I'd hammer the scene here until I can penetrate one of the working circles. The more time passes though, the more I see working musicians struggling. And when I was talking about heavy gigging guys, again it was related to the scene here. They might not get as many dates as Nathan East but for the local scene it's considered heavy working.

Anyway, I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss all this and I take it as very insightful information. I was considering moving to London but you're making me re-think it all.

In the end it won't be a matter of if I'm ready to make sacrifices or not but if I can make it here in Montreal or not.

Thanks again

Peace

Marco

[CamMcIntyre]

Great read.

I'm planning on moving to NYC within the next 5 years. I want my chops/skills to be as ready as I can be before i make that jump. I've talked to several guys in the field that I want to be [theater] and the main thing that keeps resounding to me is-you gotta be ready for your first call because if you take it and bomb, that's your last one. Some of the best advice I've ever heard is in John Miller's video on BassPlayer.Tv .

Recently, I did an inventory of what I want to accomplish and what I need to do to make that happen. I've done a rework on my practice schedule/routine & am redoing several aspects of my life style. The overall thing is to be more health in mind and body. So-i'm working out more, reading more, and taking some time to relax...while practicing as much as I can.


all the best.