Ear Training

[eunchang]

Hello Janek,

your writings and music have been extremely inspiring for the past couple of days. To be honest, I never heard your name or playing before but your clips from myspace.com were incredible. I ordered your CD through Amazon right away and it will be here in a couple of months. Yes, in a couple of months(check my location ).

My question is,

how did you train your ears? Did you already have great ears for pitches and chords before you started playing bass? Did you have any training methods or soley transcribing solos were enough for you? I can transcribe Dexter Gordon or Sonny Rollins solos without too much effort, however, if a tune's tonal center is ambiguous I have a hard time transcribing. Also, non-functional chord changes are tough to figure out just by listening for me.

Thanks in advance.

[janekbass]

Hi,

First of all thanks for picking up the CD. If you would like it sooner....and can cancel your order with amazon, you can buy it from my site and pay with paypal and It'll be there in a week or so.

So to the ears.....

my biggest ear training tool was to be playing with other people. I was never really that concious of ear training when I was home practicing on my own, but when I was in a rehearsal, gig, recording sessions etc.. I would be making sure I was listening to the rest of the band before myself (listen first, play second) and making sure nothing was sticking out of place in the general mix of the performance. The transcribing absolutely helps the ear, and now I am doing some transcriptions away from my instrument by ear.

When you find something is difficult to hear right away, you should go and find something that is super easy. Even if it's something like "sweet home alabama". you can pick out D, C and G no problem. Then work into something a little more advanced. Maybe "rocket Man" by Elton John. You can hear that F-7 going to Bb7 in the beginning. the more you grasp simple pop tunes and work your way into more complicated harmony the better. Laying a foundation of basics is extrememly important. Having a good working knowledge of the piano is really helpful too. As I've said before, I do most of my transcriptions at the piano. And what I haven't talked too much about before is the harmony aspect of a solo. I always transcribe the harmony with the solo I'm working on. As well as the piano or guitar voicings too.

As long as you are concious of what you are playing and transcribing, and think about the context of where you're playing this stuff, your ear is going to keep up and be just fine.


Easy,

Janek

[eunchang]

Thank you for your answer.

As I mentioned earlier, I have no problem with transcribing bebop ear solos within clear tonal center. Standard tunes' changes aren't that hard either. The most recent one I transcribed was Dexter Gordon's and it didn't take long.

However, I have a hard time hearing advanced harmonies and solos based on them; such as Herbie's voicings and reharmonizations. I want to transcribe those but I have no clue!!

Do you hear actual notes in the voicings or the 'color' of the voicings?

[janekbass]

Well first of all you have to idnetify the quality of the chord. There is always a basic structure to the harmony. root, 3rd and 7th.

Also be aware that there are basic ii-v-i substitutions such as the tritone.

instead of D-7/G7/Cmaj7

you could have:

D-7/Db7/Cmaj7

Ab7/G7/Cmaj7

etc etc.

and then Coltrane subs like

Abmaj7/B7/Emaj7/G7/Cmaj7 (based on a Giant Steps type of harmonic movement)

If you have access to a piano or keboard of some sort, you should make basic chord structures with root, 3rd and 7th. Then add tensions with the right hand (called upper structure triads). You can super impose diatonic triads over the basic chords structures to give you the "advanced harmony" you were talking about.

Take a Cmaj7 chord. then play E triad over the top of it. This will give you a Major7 Augmented sound. Put a D triad over it and you'll hear a Cmajor Lydian sound. Use an A triad and you'll get the Major7 b9 sound.

The more you can experiment and relate the sounds you're creating with those on records, the better. You'll hear a lot of this stuff in Bill Evans music. He was the kind of the upper structure triad. Herbie's career is based off of Bill's music. Herbie takes it more out and uses some crunchier voicings, but it's all coming from Bill Evans.

I hope this helps out.

Easy,

Janek

[s.m.80808]

Sorry if this is a dumb question. . .

When you are talking of transcribing, do you mean literally writing out the music?

What do you use for a source when transcribing? One of those machines where you can slow down the passages and loop them, or just a regular CD/Tape/Record player?

Thanks!

[janekbass]

Hi,

Yes, I'm talking about notating the music that you're transcribing. A lot of what I do is explained in a previous thread. Transcribing and Learning to PLAY Transcription


But to your question about the source... I started off using CD's with a regular CD player before I had a computer. Now my music collection is digital so I use iTunes where all my mp3's are. I have never slowed anything down to ranscribe it. In the beginning I didn't have the bread to buy one of those machines that slowed stuff down and I just got used to transcribing stuff without it.


Easy,

Janek

[eunchang]

Janek,

thank you always. Your answers always help me(and hopefully other TBers as well) a lot. I have been practicing voicings on piano for years, and these days I am trying those voicings on bass.

I can hear 3 or 4 note voicings(left hand comping style if this make sense) better but more fuller, richer two-hand voicings from Herbie Hancock's from 60's Miles records tricks me. Or, if someone is reharmonizing on the spot, I can hear that something is happening there but often I don't hear WHAT that is.

I hope eventually I can hear everything quick enough, and that is one of my main goals playing jazz. And I am always wondering what my heroes go through to get that level.

Thank you again.

[janekbass]

Well to know where they're coming from is always helpful. If you're into Herbie then, like I said before, you should dig deep into Bill Evans. work on his voicings on Mile's "kind of blue". Especially on the cuts "blue in green" and "So What". And check out the albums "Affinity", "Interplay", "sunday at the village vanguard", "portrait in jazz", Everybody digs bill evans", Waltz for Debbie" and "You must believe in Spring".

If you're into the 60's Miles albums you should get into the 1964 "my funny valentine" concert with George Coleman in the band before Wayne Shorter. Transcribing the intro on My Funny Valentine for instance will give a great insight into herbie's mind. You should also check out Keith Jarrett's "Still Live" double album. the track "I remember Clifford", the old Bennny Golson song, has a great solo piano intro and is easy to hear the movement with some lush voicings. When you're transcribing a standard like that, it will help you a lot to know the melody and chord changes first to start working out what extra spice piano players are adding to the voicings.

Also check out how Keith is developing an improvised harmonic sequence in the interlude after "you the night and the music". and also notice how long it takes Gary peacock to realize they're leaving the changes and going in another direction.....

There are some beautiful right hand, upper structure triads through this passage.

Easy,

Janek

[Lorenzini]

Hey man, don't mess with my main man GP!

Great advice Janek. As piano is my primary and first instrument, I appreciate your comments about Bill Evans - as far as transcription is concerned, I always come back to him.

Evans also influenced Keith Jarrett to the largest degree.
I heard Jarrett arrived in Boston, at Berklee, with a very large binder full of Bill Evans transcriptions.

Your opinion (which is more like fact) that Hancock borrowed many ideas from Evans makes very much sense.

I'm really glad jazz is the order of the day here in this forum.