George Russell's LCCOTO...

[Mikey D]

As someone who values and obviously studies the language of jazz and improvised music. I was wondering if you have ever studied George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept?

I got turned onto it about 8/9 months ago by my piano playing course/house mate and personally think it is one of the most interesting theoretical books out there and am slowly (very slowly) getting it into my playing as i like the sound I get using the concept.

I have been returned with many a blank look or "why bother studying that" when talking to others and it is unfortunate that a lot of jazz educators haven't sought out this text to study, even to understand one of the most indepth books relating to jazz theory ever written.

On the same sort of point, how important do you value theoretical knowledge? I hear too many people say that you don't need the theory as long as you can play.

Which is fine, but I believe that if you have all the theory and then some, you can't help but improve your playing. Too many people seem to play, but not understand what they are doing and surely you can only get so far with this route.

[Groovy Bastard]

Originally Posted by Mikey D

Too many people seem to play, but not understand what they are doing and surely you can only get so far with this route.

Well, you can exactly know all the grammar "rules" of a language, and still don't get what someones is saying.
Understanding music is an intuitive, auditive thing, not an intellectual proces (though it might be a factor, just like understanding complex sentences).

Saying theory helps you understand stuff is like taking Martin Luther King's 'I have a dream' speach and talk about the great structure of his verbs and sentences. You're quite likely to miss the point.

At least, that is how I feel about it (and believe me, I studied the theories, I even rented the Russell book from the library once, can't say it helped me much. Singing along to Stevie Wonder was a lot more useful to me.) Then again, I'm not Janek, so let's wait to see what he has to say about it.

[Sorax]

Originally Posted by Groovy Bastard

Saying theory helps you understand stuff is like taking Martin Luther King's 'I have a dream' speach and talk about the great structure of his verbs and sentences. You're quite likely to miss the point.

True, but apart from the message itself, how the message is delivered is the biggest thing. If King didn't use the lingual techniques he did (knowing or unknowingly) the speech would not have been half as effective.

[RobinBetton]

i'm kind of interested in at as well as i've been listening to russell's playing as well as that of jan garbarek and terje rypdal (spelling?) who were influenced by russell. i'm having a lot of fun listening to paul bley as well who has a new album out on ECM.

[janekbass]

having a working knowledge of theory can be a great thing when you come to composition. If you want to share your compositions with other musicians you're going to need to know how to relate that to them in a theoretical sense. ie. transcribing all your ideas to manuscript and writing charts for other peope to read.

Understanding theory to be able to explain what you are doing to another person can be a great way of having an open dialogue with other musicians, and learning from one another.
I have studied George's methods or books, I'm come to improvisation from a transcription based approach. There are so many books and methods out there that are incredible resources, but I find myself concentrating my time on finding things that really excite and interest me. Those are the things I learn the most from.

I aslso belive that it's an antirely personal thing when it comes to playing music. It works very differently for each person. I love the way I work, and I recommend it to other people, but it's not always right for someone else. Just the same as the way Mark Turner works isn't the right way for me.

The one person who's concepts I did study for a while was Hal Crook's. He was one of the most influential people to me when I was studying at Berklee and I got to play a lot with him. He has several incredible books which I would recommend to anyone.

But it really comes down to absorbing as much and varied information as you can, from wherever it might come frome. And then making that a part of your soul and your voice. Then, when you are honest and play from the heart, you will always remain in the moment and true to your art.

Easy,

Janek

[Mikey D]

Originally Posted by janekbass

The one person who's concepts I did study for a while was Hal Crook's. He was one of the most influential people to me when I was studying at Berklee and I got to play a lot with him. He has several incredible books which I would recommend to anyone.

But it really comes down to absorbing as much and varied information as you can, from wherever it might come frome. And then making that a part of your soul and your voice. Then, when you are honest and play from the heart, you will always remain in the moment and true to your art.

Easy,

Janek

Cheers for your comments...also, I have checked out Hal's books (ready, aim, improvise, creative comping, how to comp and how to improvise) I think he has others still for me to check out. They're very good, probably the best i have seen on the topics he covers.

I'm a bit of a theory book fiend (as well as playing of course) and as you state, absorbing as much as you can and taking the bits of what you like and make them your own is what it is about.