Good walking on electric - any tips?

[Funkyvlad]

Hello Janek!

thanks for constant inspiration through your posts, podcast and last but not least, music.

I was wondering how do you approach playing walking lines on electric bass, especially in case of sound, time, feel and articulation, which I find - not being an upright player - very difficult in this case? Do you have any tips to make that electric swing - not neccesarily trying to make it sound like an upright ?

I see many electric players quite lost when they are asked to walk - not in case of choice of notes but - rather - of making electric bass "a pushing factor" (not sure if that's correct in english ) and groove in walking jazz or fusion lines. I'm definitely one of them

any tips? do you have your favourite electric-walkers? and, finally, are you frequently asked by band leaders to walk on tunes? could you give some examples?

quite bunch of questions but thanks for taking time to read and answer to them

best regards

Wladek

[Mike McGibney]

Great question - look forward to seeing Janek's thoughts on this!

[janekbass]

Well just about the only gig that I'm required to play some walking bass on is with Mike Stern these days, and it's really not something I spend hours and hours working on anymore.

It's first of all, quite a thing of the past to play in that style. Don't get me wrong, I made 100's of transcriptions of Paul Chambers, ROn Carter, Oscar Pettiford, Slam Stewart, Leroy Vinegar, Reggie Veal, Chris Thomas..... and many many more... but as far as it actually working on the electric bass in that way it's pretty pointless to even try. The thing with an acoustic bass is the attack. When you look at a wave form of the an actually acoustic bass note it's a big attack and a quick drop off. Whereas an electric bass has more sustain. The only way I can make it kind of work as an electric bass player is by being really conscious of the two and four to make it swing more. I try and get as round a sound as possible, and then not stick out in the mid range too much.

I really don't have any favorite electric bass players for walking bass. I would never listen to an electric bass player to check out walking lines I don't think. There is just so much incredible playing from acoustic players that I don't think you could get through listening to it all and then think to yourself... "hmm, I'm still missing something I'll check out some electric walking lines....."

And to have a command of the language of walking you of course need command of the fundamentals of the music. Harmonic knowledge for what you're walking through, and enough basic technique to not have to be conscious of finger placement on the instrument. And you should try and be as melodic as possible with the lines too. Checking out people like paul chambers will show you just how creative you can be with quarter notes, and how much directional power you have in the band as a bass player.

Easy,

Janek

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Funkyvlad

Hello Janek!

thanks for constant inspiration through your posts, podcast and last but not least, music.

I was wondering how do you approach playing walking lines on electric bass, especially in case of sound, time, feel and articulation, which I find - not being an upright player - very difficult in this case? Do you have any tips to make that electric swing - not neccesarily trying to make it sound like an upright ?

I see many electric players quite lost when they are asked to walk - not in case of choice of notes but - rather - of making electric bass "a pushing factor" (not sure if that's correct in english ) and groove in walking jazz or fusion lines. I'm definitely one of them

any tips? do you have your favourite electric-walkers? and, finally, are you frequently asked by band leaders to walk on tunes? could you give some examples?

quite bunch of questions but thanks for taking time to read and answer to them

best regards

Wladek

Swing is a feel and if you're not feeling it you're not swinging and it doesn't matter if you play electric or acoustic, you're either swinging or you aren't.

Listening to the aforementioned bassists is critical as is playing and recording what you've played so that you can critically review what you've played. Sometimes hearing what you've played is painful but it's a necessary evil.

Get a hold of Mike Richmonds book, "Modern Walking Bass Technique" it has a lot of good lines in it.

[stevek]

Listen to Steve Swallow. "EnRoute' with John Scofield is a good start. Lots of great walking - on electric.

[Jonathan Herrera]

I'm with SteveK. Swallow is probably the only bass guitarist who is in the bible of walking bass. But, there's two relevant details about his approach. First, he was already a masterful acoustic player when he picked up bass guitar. Second, he plays with a pick and has a truly stunning control over his note envelope. The pick (copper, at that) gives his an instrument a sharper burst of sonic energy at the front of the note...he uses his left hand to great effect, to reign in sustain.

It helps that he's got unflappable time and taste. I love Steve Swallow. Love. Love.

The sustain issue that Janek describes is to me the biggest barrier to achieving a legit walking vibe on bass guitar. W/o really adept attention to the shape of each note, everything gets blurry...losing that pitched-drum push that helps give classic upright walkers such momentum.

The other thing I'd add to what Janek said is really idiomatically-appropriate walking also involves a certain interpretation of the beat, feel-wise. On uptempo stuff particularly, a good quarter-note walking line has an insistent, right-on-top/almost-pushing quality. Not only does one need to intuitively feel this, but it has to have a coherent consistency...

Can't go wrong listening to A LOT of Ray Brown, too. And Percy Heath.

[SmittyG]

Originally Posted by stevek

Listen to Steve Swallow.

+1

And also a "ditto" to JH's statement of love for SS and his music--the word "inspiration" almost doesn't do justice to his place in the bass pantheon.

[Basseroni]

Palm-muting on the electric bass will get you in the ballpark of taming the sustain and creating a bigger sound with shorter notes. I have a regular weekly jazz gig and I use my 5-string jazz. When I feel like I want to hear more of an upright-like tone I palm-mute and pluck with my thumb and index finger.

[mstott25]

Steve Swallow and Gary Willis are my favorite musicians and they both have killer walking lines on the electric. Anything by Swallow period is worth checking out and you can check out a lot of Willis' walking on the Allan Holdsworth album None too soon . You can also check out his tunes "It's only Music" from Bent or "Easy Street" from his No Sweat Album.

A couple of other albums I'd recommend are Will Lee on his album Birdhouse with his father Bill and Carol Kaye's Thumbs Up . Carol might get some flak here and there but I love her playing.

Here's a few more that come to mind: Todd Johnson, Jeff Berlin, Bob Cranshaw, and Anthony Jackson .

[cnltb]

A huge +1 on STEVE SWALLOW

[ding_man]

Listen to Jaco's walking on blues and straight ahead stuff.. you might have to search youtube.

One thing about the feel on upright is its a very physical instrument and you do more then just pluck with your fingers. Once I started upright.. my feel on electric got better. Try to mentally approach it physically.. if that makes any sense.

[ducknturtle]

"walking" is still, and will always be, a part of the tradition of bass playing and should be familiar to all who play the instrument, even if it's unlikely many of us will ever attain the proficiency of say a Charles Mingus or Ray Brown.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by janekbass

Well just about the only gig that I'm required to play some walking bass on is with Mike Stern these days, and it's really not something I spend hours and hours working on anymore.

It's first of all, quite a thing of the past to play in that style. Don't get me wrong, I made 100's of transcriptions of Paul Chambers, ROn Carter, Oscar Pettiford, Slam Stewart, Leroy Vinegar, Reggie Veal, Chris Thomas..... and many many more... but as far as it actually working on the electric bass in that way it's pretty pointless to even try. The thing with an acoustic bass is the attack. When you look at a wave form of the an actually acoustic bass note it's a big attack and a quick drop off. Whereas an electric bass has more sustain. The only way I can make it kind of work as an electric bass player is by being really conscious of the two and four to make it swing more. I try and get as round a sound as possible, and then not stick out in the mid range too much.

I really don't have any favorite electric bass players for walking bass. I would never listen to an electric bass player to check out walking lines I don't think. There is just so much incredible playing from acoustic players that I don't think you could get through listening to it all and then think to yourself... "hmm, I'm still missing something I'll check out some electric walking lines....."

And to have a command of the language of walking you of course need command of the fundamentals of the music. Harmonic knowledge for what you're walking through, and enough basic technique to not have to be conscious of finger placement on the instrument. And you should try and be as melodic as possible with the lines too. Checking out people like paul chambers will show you just how creative you can be with quarter notes, and how much directional power you have in the band as a bass player.

Easy,

Janek

I agree with everything there - I played BG for many years and tried to play convincing walking lines in Jazz - but it is so much easier using a Double Bass!!

I love the sound of 60s Blue Note and basically if you want a sound like that - then you need a DB - why spend huge amounts of time fiddling and messing about - just get a DB!

On the other hand there is no reason why you shouldn't have a unique and distinctive voice on BG that fits into any musical genre?

I had lessons with Franc 'O Shea who has made some great albums as leader/BG player and have seen him play at Jazz clubs and with Jazz musicians - but in the sets I saw, there were no walking lines and it was all original material!

Create something new and original - use what you like!

But if you are tring to re-create a sound from the past then it seems silly to use anything other than what was used then!

[Bernie Connors]

So what do you guys think of Anthony Jackson's walking on electric? For me, his walking on electric is the best out there.

Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4pVbxkqe9M

[jazzcrime]

anthony jackson's walking is masterful, however it still definitely doesn't have the same vibe as an upright walking.
having said that, i dig jacksons walking and feel over any upright anyway!


and far out, petrucciani... that guy could take the simplest idea and turn it into the most amazing solo ever. it's something people overlook sometimes, but when it's done properly wow! it's like being hit in the face with musicality!

[Bernie Connors]

Originally Posted by jazzcrime

anthony jackson's walking is masterful, however it still definitely doesn't have the same vibe as an upright walking.
having said that, i dig jacksons walking and feel over any upright anyway!

Agreed. Which is what people have been saying all along. So I'm with you all on that. There's no way to replicate the presence that a DB has on an electric.

I also agree on AJ's walking. The best out there, IMO!

[Funkyvlad]

Thanks for all replies- each of them was a great help in my struggle with walking bass.

good point on Anthony Jackson- I've always been a great fan of Petrucciani- in case of his sound, feel, his solos - very respectful for the notes and so on. But what is most important for me is, that in his playing I can hear almost everything in case of putting emotions into music- his pain, relief and on the other hand- his joy and happiness. One of the most touching voices ever.

In the european "Mezzo" music tv once I watched a great documentary about Petrucciani, loaded with concert clips, interviews and behind -the -scenes-cuts- definitely great experience for every musician. Worth finding it somewhere.

In case of walking and first of all- great music I reccomend "Trio in Tokio" album- Petrucciani, Jackson and Steve Gadd.

greetings from Poland

Wladek

[mstott25]

I used to see Dave Carpenter play in LA all the time. He was a legend but this is the only album I'm aware of with him playing straight ahead with his six string.
This shows the potential of the electric bass in jazz, but Dave was a phenomenal upright player and to the best of my knowledge spent most of his time playing upright.

If you want that sound/vibe - get an upright. If you want some inspiration for the potential of the electric bass in jazz, listen to Dave Carpenter

[RobinBetton]

i like steve swallow's playing as well as jerome harris's playing a lot.