Intonation for Young Double Bass players

[tadams]

I have just joined this forum specifically to find out about intonation issues for young 17 year old Double Bass players.
I am a music teacher and I have to assess a 17 year old girl. I would really like to encourage her by giving her a fantastic mark, because I think she has done a really fantastic job. Her performance did, however have some intonation issues. I would really like to hear from anyone, who could give me some reasons to explain these intonation difficulties as completely typical for someone of this age. The marks I give her will be moderated by an external organisation , so the reasons must be good. She has played repertoire of this assessment all the way up to thumb position.

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks
Terry
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[Bruce Lindfield]

There is a Double Bass section to the site you know - with lots of very experienced DB players frequenting it - many of whom are teachers etc.

[janekbass]

I'm with bruce on this one....

Although i do play acoustic bass I am more of an electric player and wouldn't like to try and answer that question when there are so many better qualified acoustic players in this forum.

Easy,

Janek

[Ed Fuqua]

Just to understand a little more,you are a music teacher, but not a bass teacher or bassist yourself? You are not the student's primary instrumental teacher but part of a larger "committeee" making assessments (for grading or scoring)?

Generally, I don't really know of mitigating circumstancs for playing out of tune. My point of view, if somebody is nailing the "notes' of the repertoire, but not the pitches, is because of an over reliance on positional playing and underdevelopment of their ear. Or more precisely, their "expectation of pitch".
There should exist some methodology for praising the good work they have done (memorizing repertoire, technical facility etc.) and bringing to the fore work that they still need to concentrate on (intonation, hearing the music AS music etc.) Your job, both as a teacher and an assessor, is to MAINTAIN FORWARD PROGRESS.

I've been part of a rhythm section that played for junior juries for the jazz program at a university here, when the teachers have been doing their assessments, they take into account not only what the "assignment" of the jury was, but where the student started from (at the beginning of that year), what work they put in to get where they were when they were standing in that room and how where they were would affect their ability to get through the next level of work. It was mostly PASS/FAIL, but the student was given ALL the notes and comments from the teachers so that they had the FULL assessment of their performance. Good and bad. So that they knew what to work on.

The bottom line is you aren't going to be doing them a favor either by glossing over weak spots in their playing or concentrating ONLY on those weak points.

[Peter_00]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

..hearing the music AS music etc.)

I'm interested in what you mean by this, I think im suffering from the same problem! I play classical bass at college level but sometimes I wonder if I am really "hearing" the music that I play in the same way a jazz musician would. I would be interested if you could expand on this a bit anyway.

[Ed Fuqua]

My buddy Dan has a nice rant about second tenor parts. In most charts the alto has the lead/melody and first tenor and second alto either harmonise the melody or double it. Bari usually is doubling something on the bottom of the chord. Which leaves the second tenor to kind of "fill in" the rest of the chord, generally making a "line" that bears little resemblance to music. Apropos of this, another buddy (Jon Easton) was talking about a lesson of his with Lennie Tristano where Lennie talks about getting to the level of hearing EVERY voice under your fingers (playing piano) and having each and every finger playing a line that would stand alone as a melody, if you could isolate it.

So when you are playing, do you hear (internally) your line as part of a larger piece of music? Could you sing the main melodic theme against the bass part you are playing? Or your part against the melody? You should alwasy strive to hear ANYTHING you play -scales, etudes, whatever - as music. To make even Simandl exercise come as alive as you can make them, to hear them as music before you actually sound the note.

Does that help any?

[Peter_00]

Thanks that does it clear it up a bit. There are times when I could sing the melodic or accompaniment part against what im playing but in all honesty, not that often. The way I see alot of sheet music interpreted is like some kind of "rhythmic tab" where a second space in bass clef means three semitones up the a string, which tells you very little about how the music is actually going to sound! I am guilty of this as well, and it is really frustrating because if im trying to learn something quickly for a orchestra rep. class etc this is the way it usually gets inputed.

How did you get around this? How do you hear scales as music? This reminds me, I was listening to a "student playing with pros" night here at uni and a sax player came to sit in and was playing some great stuff and the classical flautist next to me just said "His scales are really good aren't they". I guess that's kind of the opposite.