Jaco

bassnutj · #1 01-23-2008, 12:16 PM

Hey Janek-
I was wondering if you feel you've been influenced by Jaco. I know you're really big into transciption, studying guys like Metheny and Brecker, etc., but did you ever go through a "Jaco period" like so many bass players have? If so, did you transcribe his lines/solos? It almost seems like a requirement these days to be able to play Donna Lee (Jaco's version of the melody and his solo), Teen Town, Continuum, etc. Not that anyone plays those on a gig, but bass players seem to always be playing them. I also remember you helped analyze Havona for BP magazine a few months ago.
Sometimes I wonder if it's a good idea to focus on Jaco anymore; I went through a "Jaco period" myself at some point, can play those tunes, but am thinking it might be better off to let it be, and focus more on my own thing...which I don't know what that is at this point....
Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Nut

janekbass · #2 01-23-2008, 07:35 PM

I was into Jaco in a big way, and I still am. I learnt to play all of his solos and compositions, and got deep into his playing.

He has affected so many bass players in the world that there tend to be a lot of clones of his sound and vibe. I've tried to stay as far away from that style of playing as I can for many years now. Although the influence will of course never go away. His presence in the music is far too strong for any bass player not to be slightly influenced by him.

The Havona solo analysis was cool. I spoke with Chris Jisi on the phone for a while talking about the song and giving him my thoughts on where Jaco's head might have been at during the recording of the song, and some basic harmonic thoughts as to where the solo lines came from.

My feelings for Jaco's music will never die off. I've been fortunate to work with Kenwood Dennard, Hiram Bullock, Mike Stern, Flora Purim, Airto Moreira, Randy Brecker and a host of other cats who were Jaco's closest friends. It's been incredible to talk to these guys about jaco and remember him for the greatness he brought to the music. It's hard for me to listen to his playing, and see videos of him in the later more destructive years of his life, and I much prefer to remember the young energetic Jaco with Weather Report.

As I say with all artists that you might respect and love:

learn there thing until it's a part of you, get it deep inside your soul. Be influenced by it, and consumed by it at times. But then take what you can from it and make it your own.

Imitate, and the Innovate.

Easy,

Janek

**Mark Wilson** · #3 01-23-2008, 10:41 PM

Janek,

Hey man, how's everything going? We haven't talked in a while!
Hope all is well.

Anyway, since we're talking about Jaco, and you helped with Havona, I'm trying to tackle some of his licks in the tune. I don't want to learn it all. Solely because...it's Jaco. he's untouchable.

Anyway, he does a lot of licks in his solo. Like about the 5th or 6th bar in (i could be wrong) where he does the line of descending thirds.
How would you go about getting the proper technique and articulating it like so it doesn't sound terrible?

Or, maybe that's the magic of Jaco?

Liten · #4 01-24-2008, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassnutj

I also remember you helped analyze Havona for BP magazine a few months ago.

Sorry.. not intendet as a thred-jack but.. as were on the subject.. In what issue was this? As Im struggling with the solo, I would greatly appriciate any tips on anything regarding this tune..

adri24an · #5 01-24-2008, 05:33 AM

maybe someone can upload the analisys?

bassnutj · #6 01-24-2008, 10:42 AM

Thanks Janek.
Sometimes it's a struggle to decide on what to take from Jaco. For example, I cannot stand walking into a music store, namm show, bassfest or whatever, and hear some guys playing Donna Lee, usually poorly, and then having no idea about what it is, who wrote it, what the changes are, how to walk over it, or how to solo over it. It's almost insulting to Jaco. The same with the guys that grab the harmonics at the 4th fret, etc. The ones that don't even know the notes.
At this point, it seems like the only value in learning the solo from Donna Lee would be to gain some phrasing ideas and melodic material to transpose into the other keys. Otherwise, who really wants to hear someone play back Jaco's solo? This guy did it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1_IbQzD5zAM
and it's fantastic (no it's not me) but I wonder what that accomplishes other a bunch od bass players saying "Wow that was fantastic".

bassrique · #7 01-25-2008, 10:51 PM

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/ja...r/sep-07/31331

adri24an · #8 01-26-2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassrique

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/ja...r/sep-07/31331

thank you very much dude!

lovemybasses · #9 01-26-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassnutj

Otherwise, who really wants to hear someone play back Jaco's solo? This guy did it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1_IbQzD5zAM
and it's fantastic (no it's not me) but I wonder what that accomplishes other a bunch od bass players saying "Wow that was fantastic".

it's already an accomplishment infact,to play like that guy.

stevek · #10 02-01-2008, 02:23 PM

Speaking of the 'Havona' BP issue, Jeff Berlin wrote a letter to the editor stating that Jaco wrote out all his solos, that he didn't improvise them. Have any of you guys heard this before? If it's true, I'm quite surprised.

bassnutj · #11 02-01-2008, 03:15 PM

I think there is contention with this. As I understand it, Jaco's solos for tunes like Donna Lee, Havona, etc. where prepared either beforehand or were constructed in the studio out of 3-4 takes, as on Havona. That's what some say, and if it's true, who cares? The solos are still beautiful, and maybe more players should do this instead of wacking off for 10 choruses.

However, to go from the idea that Jaco was prepared before the take of Donna Lee with a general shape of solo, some ideas worked out, and so forth to the notion that "Jaco did not develop the ability to improvise on his instrument" as Jeff Berlin was so quick to assert, is ludicrous. Jeff is an amazing soloist on the bass, and like Janek, has transcribed horn players out the wazoo. He however, is an a$$hole. For years I've heard him say stuff just to be controversial, and argue minute ideas to death for to good reason (the metronome arguement).

I don't undedrstand why Jeff felt the need to come out with that sh!t. It's not as though bass player said "Jaco was without question the greatest improviser on the bass ever and that's that" or something. Jeff's comment, to me, is in poor taste, and smells like bitterness coming from a man who has been overshadowed by Jaco his whole career. Too bad Jeff.

Lastly, Jaco couldn't improvise? Any number of bootlegs will refute this notion clearly. Jaco was a living, breathing, improvising musician who lived in the moment in everything he did. Too much has been made of the comment, and it leaves Berlin looking like a shmuck.

Andrew.Glose · #12 02-01-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassnutj

I think there is contention with this. As I understand it, Jaco's solos for tunes like Donna Lee, Havona, etc. where prepared either beforehand or were constructed in the studio out of 3-4 takes, as on Havona. That's what some say, and if it's true, who cares? The solos are still beautiful, and maybe more players should do this instead of wacking off for 10 choruses.

However, to go from the idea that Jaco was prepared before the take of Donna Lee with a general shape of solo, some ideas worked out, and so forth to the notion that "Jaco did not develop the ability to improvise on his instrument" as Jeff Berlin was so quick to assert, is ludicrous. Jeff is an amazing soloist on the bass, and like Janek, has transcribed horn players out the wazoo. He however, is an a$$hole. For years I've heard him say stuff just to be controversial, and argue minute ideas to death for to good reason (the metronome arguement).

I don't undedrstand why Jeff felt the need to come out with that sh!t. It's not as though bass player said "Jaco was without question the greatest improviser on the bass ever and that's that" or something. Jeff's comment, to me, is in poor taste, and smells like bitterness coming from a man who has been overshadowed by Jaco his whole career. Too bad Jeff.

Lastly, Jaco couldn't improvise? Any number of bootlegs will refute this notion clearly. Jaco was a living, breathing, improvising musician who lived in the moment in everything he did. Too much has been made of the comment, and it leaves Berlin looking like a shmuck.

Ya know, I've found that it's not so much what Berlin says, but how he says it. From what I've seen, he's correct most of the time. Regardless, it doesn't take away from the fact the he appears to be an insufferable know-it-all.

Sorax · #13 02-01-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassnutj

I think there is contention with this. As I understand it, Jaco's solos for tunes like Donna Lee, Havona, etc. where prepared either beforehand or were constructed in the studio out of 3-4 takes, as on Havona. That's what some say, and if it's true, who cares? The solos are still beautiful, and maybe more players should do this instead of wacking off for 10 choruses.

However, to go from the idea that Jaco was prepared before the take of Donna Lee with a general shape of solo, some ideas worked out, and so forth to the notion that "Jaco did not develop the ability to improvise on his instrument" as Jeff Berlin was so quick to assert, is ludicrous. Jeff is an amazing soloist on the bass, and like Janek, has transcribed horn players out the wazoo. He however, is an a$$hole. For years I've heard him say stuff just to be controversial, and argue minute ideas to death for to good reason (the metronome arguement).

I don't undedrstand why Jeff felt the need to come out with that sh!t. It's not as though bass player said "Jaco was without question the greatest improviser on the bass ever and that's that" or something. Jeff's comment, to me, is in poor taste, and smells like bitterness coming from a man who has been overshadowed by Jaco his whole career. Too bad Jeff.

Lastly, Jaco couldn't improvise? Any number of bootlegs will refute this notion clearly. Jaco was a living, breathing, improvising musician who lived in the moment in everything he did. Too much has been made of the comment, and it leaves Berlin looking like a shmuck.

Have a read of Berlin's comment. First of all, he paid due respect to Jaco, before simply stating his opinion (or fact). I'm tempted to believe Berlin. Videos of Jaco "improvising" (particularly over changes) show Jaco relying on Jaco licks. But I really don't care. Solos like Havona are incredibly beautiful regardless of whether they were improvised or composed. And Jaco's compositional genius was itself, something extraordinary.

I'm not a Berlin fan at all (his style doesn't appeal to me, don't like his tone) but man I get sick of people bitching about him. Everything I've ever read/heard from him has been respectfully stated opinions. Maybe if people spent a little more time practicing and a little less arguing who said what and why we would have a few more musicians who even approach Berlin's level of mastery of the bass and harmony. (and yes, I am aware of the irony of this statement)

BoulderBrow · #14 02-01-2008, 06:16 PM

If that's what he said, definately Jeffs opinion not fact. I've yet to see a musician who doesn't have 'licks'.

Snarf · #15 02-01-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorax

Have a read of Berlin's comment. First of all, he paid due respect to Jaco, before simply stating his opinion (or fact). I'm tempted to believe Berlin. Videos of Jaco "improvising" (particularly over changes) show Jaco relying on Jaco licks. But I really don't care. Solos like Havona are incredibly beautiful regardless of whether they were improvised or composed. And Jaco's compositional genius was itself, something extraordinary.

I'm not a Berlin fan at all (his style doesn't appeal to me, don't like his tone) but man I get sick of people bitching about him. Everything I've ever read/heard from him has been respectfully stated opinions. Maybe if people spent a little more time practicing and a little less arguing who said what and why we would have a few more musicians who even approach Berlin's level of mastery of the bass and harmony. (and yes, I am aware of the irony of this statement)

How is that irony? Knowledge of harmony is critical to playing bass. Maybe you're confusing harmony with chordal playing?

Sorax · #16 02-01-2008, 07:18 PM

The irony I was referring to was the fact that I was indeed posting on a forum instead of doing the aforementioned shedding

Snarf · #17 02-01-2008, 08:53 PM

Doh!

bassnutj · #18 02-01-2008, 10:02 PM

Yes, he prefaced his comment with something nice. Yes, people get bent out of shape by Jeff Berlin. Yes, Jaco played licks in solos as most improvisers do. Yes, I should be shedding instead of typing about this garbage.

But Jaco had developed the ability to improvise on his instrument, contrary to what Magnum P.I.....I mean, Jeff Berlin, says.

Sorax · #19 02-02-2008, 01:11 AM

I won't continue to argue man, shouldn't have worried too much about it in the first place. We can all agree Jaco was incredible

Peace,
Josh

stevek · #20 02-02-2008, 12:24 PM

Yes, it really doesn't matter if Jaco improvised or not. He still revolutionized the instrument. I just thought that it was odd that Berlin had to make a point out of this, w/o really backing it up. I mean, for one, Jaco is clearly improvising (amazingly) throughout his instructional video 'Modern electric bass'. And this was supposedly shot when he was 'down and out'. Maybe it's Berlin's way of trying to stir the pot a bit. He obviously has made, and continues to make, controversial statements re music and music learning (most of which is dead-on). I just thought the Jaco comment was in poor taste.