Jaco

[johncg]

I find hard to believe that Jaco's solos on Metheny's Bright Size Life disc were composed, or even that they were composite of multiple takes, especially since that was a working trio before they hit the studio.

Why the hell would Pat hire a bassist for a jazz trio who can't improvise?

Jaco is a fantastic improvisor. Even listening to the way he hooks up with other musicians while playing regular old bass parts is evidence of this.

Saying the very least, it is quite unlikely that such a great musician would learn to improvise bass lines very well, learn to "write" solos very well, and somehow decide that learning to improvise solos was just not worth the effort.

I don't know where Berlin gets off making that comment but I don't buy it for one second.

[bassnutj]

Originally Posted by johncg

I find hard to believe that Jaco's solos on Metheny's Bright Size Life disc were composed, or even that they were composite of multiple takes, especially since that was a working trio before they hit the studio.

Why the hell would Pat hire a bassist for a jazz trio who can't improvise?

Jaco is a fantastic improvisor. Even listening to the way he hooks up with other musicians while playing regular old bass parts is evidence of this.

Saying the very least, it is quite unlikely that such a great musician would learn to improvise bass lines very well, learn to "write" solos very well, and somehow decide that learning to improvise solos was just not worth the effort.

I don't know where Berlin gets off making that comment but I don't buy it for one second.

Well said.

[Sorax]

Originally Posted by johncg

I find hard to believe that Jaco's solos on Metheny's Bright Size Life disc were composed, or even that they were composite of multiple takes, especially since that was a working trio before they hit the studio.

That's very true. By the way, what a great album!

[Lorenzini]

This thread should have ended with Janek's response.
All this talk about Jeff Berlin's comments are pointless when the OP is asking JANEK about the influence of Jaco on him.

[Sorax]

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

This thread should have ended with Janek's response.
All this talk about Jeff Berlin's comments are pointless when the OP is asking JANEK about the influence of Jaco on him.

I'm sure Janek can look after his own forum, and this is valid discussion about improvising.

[janekbass]

I think the notion of Jaco being sober enough to write out solos before a record date with Joe Zawinul is an insane statement in itself. It's sad, but unfortunately true.

The great part about it all imo, is that improvisation doesn't just come within the context of a featured solo, but also for us bass players in the context of comping for a soloist. The interaction that Jaco pioneered between band members through his playing with Weather Report, Joni MItchell, Herbie Hancock, The Word Of Mouth Band, and numerous other projects, was one of the turning points of the instrument.

I can't say I agree with much of What Jeff Berlin has to say on the teaching of music. I think he has a very closed minded attitude towards it, and hasn't developed his own playing any further than it was 20 years ago, both performance wise or compositionally. This is, of course, just my opinion. As is it Jeff's opinion that one shouldn't practice with a metronome. I think people should practice with what advances their music the most. And for one person/teacher such as Jeff, to close down one avenue of practice before a student has had time to figure out if it works for them or not, is a shame.

My thing has always been transcription. I talk about it, even preach about it sometimes. But I won't tell a student that it's the be all and end all of learning music. I say that it worked for me, I love to do it, and it continues to inspire me to learn. If the student digs the way I play and has questions about that, they will be directed towards transcription as a method of attaining what it is they're looking for. I think you should be inspired by those around you, and especially those people who might have a huge influence on the way you learn such as your private teacher. If someone digs the way Jeff plays and wants to study with him, then I think it would be totally valid for him to say "well I arrived at this point by not practicing with a metronome...." rather than totally diminishing one method of practice.

Easy,

Janek

[bassnutj]

Regarding Jaco's improvising: Anyone ever hear the record he did in a piano trio format with drummer Brian Melvin? It was recorded in 85 or 86 and is all standards. Even though Jaco was past his prime and battling his demons by that point, his playing is great, and he is surely improvising every one of his solos on that record.

[brake]

There is a lot of playing on Shadows and Light (the live Joni Mitchell dvd) that feels like it is improvised..and quite well.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by janekbass

I think the notion of Jaco being sober enough to write out solos before a record date with Joe Zawinul is an insane statement in itself. It's sad, but unfortunately true.

The great part about it all imo, is that improvisation doesn't just come within the context of a featured solo, but also for us bass players in the context of comping for a soloist. The interaction that Jaco pioneered between band members through his playing with Weather Report, Joni MItchell, Herbie Hancock, The Word Of Mouth Band, and numerous other projects, was one of the turning points of the instrument.

I can't say I agree with much of What Jeff Berlin has to say on the teaching of music. I think he has a very closed minded attitude towards it, and hasn't developed his own playing any further than it was 20 years ago, both performance wise or compositionally. This is, of course, just my opinion. As is it Jeff's opinion that one shouldn't practice with a metronome. I think people should practice with what advances their music the most. And for one person/teacher such as Jeff, to close down one avenue of practice before a student has had time to figure out if it works for them or not, is a shame.

My thing has always been transcription. I talk about it, even preach about it sometimes. But I won't tell a student that it's the be all and end all of learning music. I say that it worked for me, I love to do it, and it continues to inspire me to learn. If the student digs the way I play and has questions about that, they will be directed towards transcription as a method of attaining what it is they're looking for. I think you should be inspired by those around you, and especially those people who might have a huge influence on the way you learn such as your private teacher. If someone digs the way Jeff plays and wants to study with him, then I think it would be totally valid for him to say "well I arrived at this point by not practicing with a metronome...." rather than totally diminishing one method of practice.

Easy,

Janek

I think this question of improvising is very important to people who want to be considered Jazz musicians and be taken seriously as such - whereas others just don't see it as a problem.

So I can remember talking to a few UK Jazz pros who are constantly trying to ensure that they come up with new and fresh ideas when they solo and how to do that - so I had a few classes with Julian Siegel on this and I can remember talking to John Paricelli, who said that at one point he was recording all his Jazz gigs on mini disc and reviewing them, to make sure he wasn't just repeating himself.

I've been listening to a lot of Coltrane lately and what's impressive is how he keeps re-inventing himself and driving forward with new ideas and never going back....I suppose this is the classic model - but is it realistic for anybody to achieve this kind of relentless development?