london-new york...

[MPBASS]

Hey Janek!!!

I'm thinking about moving away from italy where I live to New York or london to study music and hopefully manage to make a living by playing...I'm thinking about spending some time in both places just to see for myself which place suits me best but I'd like to hear what you have to say about the two cities....I really want to work hard and be in a place where I can improve and work enough...

thanks!!!

[janekbass]

well it really depends on what you want out of your playing and your career. There are some great opportunities in both cities, but they are very different scenes. London is incredibly expensive for a start, so it would take a lot of start up money to go and live there and break into the scene. New York would present different problems such as a visa to be in the US in order to live and work. I would recommend visiting both cities for a little while and seeing what you think fits the best.

For jazz and creative improvised music there is no other city on the planet except NYC. There's nothing that even comes close to the level of musicianship, creativity, or drive. Now I haven't lived in London for 10 years, but I do go back to work now and again, and stay pretty tuned in with what's going on on the scene there. I would say that if you have the right look and sound there are definitely some touring gigs that you could get involved in with european pop artists, and if you're around long enough there should be some recording you could get into. But those two things take a long time to break into anywhere if you don't have any previous connections.

I think the best thing you could do (depending on your age...) is go to Berklee in Boston. You'll be on a student visa so you won't have to worry about lawyers and stuff, and you'll be meeting some of the greatest young musicians in the world at that school who you can keep in touch with and work with the rest of your life. there is no other networking school like it in the world.

Good luck with it all, and let me know if there's anything else you need help with.

Easy,

Janek

[MPBASS]

Janek!!!thanks for your kind advice...I'll let you know if I'm in new york so I can get some lessons maybe?!? thanks again!!! all the best!

[Mikey D]

Originally Posted by janekbass

For jazz and creative improvised music there is no other city on the planet except NYC.

I think the best thing you could do (depending on your age...) is go to Berklee in Boston.
Janek

Rather than start a new thread, I think where I am at at the moment is quite similar to the OP.

I'm seriously thinking of moving my life to NY, mainly for the reason you have stated above and also the access to some great teachers. The seed in my mind started after having a chat with the monster drummer Mark Guiliana about the NY scene about a year ago and obviously what i have been reading on here (aswell as wanting to live there since god knows when!).

I have had some recommendations of places to look for work (not playing, actual work work!), but at places I could still be completely involved with jazz.

I am under no illusion that it will be easy to make it out there and to be honest, I know I'm gonna be quite behind some of the players out there, but it's not about being the best is it!

I've come to a point in my studies (completed the 1st two years, where I have learned so much) but where for various reasons, I don't think my jazz course is for me, and I'm still undecided how much the degree actually matters in comparison to getting my playing REALLY together. So I'm currently feeling that maybe the money I am spending could be put in better use by having some 121's with some really great teachers that are coming from where I am with my playing and really shedding the **** out of my instrument.

So, some quick advice required (anybody feel free to comment):
1) Where would you recommend looking for a place to rent? As in location and possibly what websites?
2) Realistically, how much would somebody need to earn to have a very modest living? i.e How much would I need to work so I don't waste all my practice time!

On another note, do you know if Berklee accept mature students!? I didn't exactly get a straight answer out of them.

Cheers for any advice from anyone!

[janekbass]

I have no idea about Berklee's acceptance policy as regards age. you'd have to speak to admissions there and see what they say.

I would look on www.craigslist.org for apartments. You should be able to find something there no problem.

There are roommate situations coming up all the time, single apartments to rent etc etc... I would look in Astoria, Williamsburg, Park Slope, and possibly in New Jersey in Hoboken, Jersey City etc....

It's very expensive to live in Manhattan. Trust me, I've been doing it for 8 years now! so looking in Queens or Brooklyn is your best bet.

I would imagine the lowest possible rent you'd be looking at would be around $600 per month (300 pounds or thereabouts), plus whatever you're going to spend on food, gas, electric, transport. A subway and bus pass in NYC is $24 or 12 pounds for a week. It runs 24hrs 7 days a week so you can get anywhere on it. basically compared to London, NYC is about a third of the price. You'll most likely not spend more than $400 on food a month depending on where your tastes lie, and how much of a budget you're working on. I'm estimating anything here at a lowest possible minimum. Gas and Electric are likely to come out to around $60 a month depending on where you live, and how many people you split the cost with. Entrance to a club like the 55bar is around $10 depending on who you're seeing, and a beer is anywhere from $4-8, depending on where you're hanging out. Clothing is cheaper here than the UK, as is almost everything else you can possibly think of. Everything runs on 110v so you'll need new gear to play through here. Lots of clubs have some sort of backline, but not all of them. A cab with your gear from Brooklyn to the city will run you $20 and upwards depending on where you're coming from. I know that from where I live on the Upper West Side to cab it to a gig in the village like the 55bar will be just under $20 each way.

I hope that is of some use to you.

Easy,

Janek

[brianh]

Hi Janek,

I thought I saw you in the neighborhood recently...

I'm at 105th and Columbus..are you near?

[janekbass]

Yeah, not far from there. Love the neighborhood.

Easy,

Janek

[bass349]

Hi janek, rather than start a new thread, thought this would be a good place to ask how you got your working visa/your visa situation.

I'm planning on moving to the states within the next 18 months, but i have only recently realised how hard it's going to be to get a working visa over there (i'm coming from australia btw).

I have checked out the new-ish E3 visa and that seems the go - but apparently you need either a degree or a sponser in the US. i'm either 12 months or 18months (depending on what they credit me) shy of my deferred jazz degree. i actually had no real plans of returning to the course anytime soon, so if i can avoid that, then that would be preferrable! Also i'm dubious that my jazz degreee would even help the situation, as according to the website;

"It is not enough that an E-3 applicant holds a particular degree; the job itself must also require a bachelor-level or higher qualification. For example, someone with a degree in Business Studies planning to work as a Personal Assistant would not be eligible for the E-3 unless the job actually required a bachelor-level qualification. "

i can't think of any musical employment i've had in the last two years that would be applicable to that statement! is there even a way that a self-employed person can get a working visa in the US?

I'm doing a short round the world trip (through a little of europe, then to south america where my girlfiriends family is), and then landing in LA. I basically plan to come and check out the big cities and musical meccas and find a place with a good scene that i get a good vibe from, and feel i can get some work in. I'm definately gonna check out NY, but i'm also really interested in seeing LA, Nashville etc.

Unfortunately someone alerted to me that it's a lot harder to get a working visa for the US than i anticipated. I'm yet to go book an appointment with the US consulate over here.. but still would really like to hear from you (or anyone else..) about how you got by this problem. I'm self-employed over here - ie, i subcontract my playing and teaching services to my clients (bands/band leaders/students/teaching academys). i assume that's how you do it over there? makes me wonder how anyone musician from outside the US is working without that sponsorship?

sorry for the rambling.. hope you get the jist of my question!!

On a side note, i'm working really hard at the moment on making myself as versatile as possible - not just from the electric bass perspective, but also working hard on double and vocals. I'm just trying to make myself as employable as possible. I'm already fairly comfortable in most genres, but i guess i'll be mostly looking for pop/R&B type gigs if they're available. Any advice you can throw my way as to other things i can work on would be great

Thanks for all the time you dedicate to this forum, it really is much appreciated!

all the best,
Andy O'Neil

[janekbass]

I would do a tourist visa first if you're just checking out a few cities. I think you get 90 days giving you about a month in each place if you check out three cities.

Depending on what you're looking for I wouldn't highly recommend Nashville as a city to move to if you're coming from abroad. LA and NYC are the two places where I think you'll have most success. But you also have to realize you're not going to figure out where you're going to work if you spend less than one year in either city. It takes a long time to get your footing in scenes that are as competitive as LA and NYC. I think it would take you less time in LA to fit into some sort of working scene. If you have the right look then there are a bunch of circles you can find yourself touring in. But you need a car in LA without a doubt. You won't be able to hang out with anyone, or go to shows if you don't have a car. So make sure you put that in your budget while you're here.

NYC is way easier to get around as the public transport runs 24hrs and is pretty cheap, but the city is way harder to break into. It took me several years to where I was really known around town and was on people's lists of bass players to call.

As for staying a longer period of time on a visa, you should have an O-1 visa. It's the only way to go besides a green card or marriage for citizenship. It allows you to work way more than any other visa, but it's the hardest one of them all to get. I'm currently on my 3rd one in a row, and have a pretty famous sponsor for it which made it slightly easier to get. But it's still a lot of work and a long process.

There's no real easy way around any of it. I would highly recommend coming here to study. You get a little bit of breathing space, and some time to meet people. Berklee is possibly the best way into moving to the US no matter where you want to end up in the country.

I hope that helps.

Easy,

Janek

[bass349]

Thanks Janek!

Thats great advice.

I do plan on buying a car as soon as i get there. it's in the budget

i'll look into the O-1 visa, thanks for the heads up.

I'm interested that you don't recommend Nashville.. only because i've heard that there is lots of work there? i had a bass player friend of mine who mentioned he went there a few years ago and ended up doing a few sessions there just cause some people saw him play. He is a killer player though, i guess that helps!

The study option is a great idea and i can definately see the many advantages. I'm just not sure if i can quite get my head around the idea of going back to studying (not saying that i don't need it..)! but yeah cheers for the advise, gives me a lot to think about. I know the uni i attended over here does a "study abroad" type program and has something setup with the university of miami (i think..). so that is another option i can look into.

cheers mate!

Andy

[janekbass]

the only reason I said that nashville wouldn't be the place for someone to hit first is that it's totally a country and christian scene so it's pretty single minded as far as the work goes. But if you're into that scene and aspire to play that way then it could be perfect. Worth a visit to check out for yourself if you're in any doubt.

Easy,

Janek