Music Colleges

[Goldbass]

Janek,
what do you think about the music colleges in England in terms of jazz? Would you say the academy is easily the best or do you reckon the others are better? Also, what do you think makes Berklee so comprehensively better then the english colleges? It's just that I might soon be thinking about this and where is best to audition etc.

Also, what do you feel about 'raking' with the same finger while playing lines?

Thanks,
Dan

[janekbass]

Dan,

I found that jazz specific music schools in the UK (at least the one I was at - Academy) was small, living in pretty much the dark ages when it comes to improvisational music, and full of students who didn't have some sort of common goal.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the school you go to being a jazz school. I would ask yourself serious questions as to what it is you want out of music, and where you want to take your own music. Creating a unique voice is rather more important than getting a degree in music from a fancy school.

Berklee has a lot of things to offer in the sense that it is hands down the most well equipped music school in the world. Not only does it have state of the art synth labs, recording studios, seasoned professionals in every field as teachers, it seemed to have, at least when i was there, a student base that wanted to learn.

The biggest part of going to music school is the networking. You will meet people there that you will work with for the rest of your life, so the wider and greater the spectrum of people that you surround yourself with the better. Berklee can definitely offer that.

As to the question about raking.....

I know I use that sometimes, but I'm not concious of quite where anymore. Practice things slowly and find out what is most comfortable for you. That's all I did to develope right and left hand technique.

Easy,

Janek

[Goldbass]

Janek,

what sort of stuff did you actually get up to at the academy, because in an interview you said that you thought you would have been better off transcribing. What was different at Berklee? Is Berklee the hardest place to get into by far?

The tutors at the academy seem to be good - westwood, cottle and others on bass. I asked Paul Westwood about you actually and he did remember you! He talked about how you got your gig with Airto. He said you begged Airto to sit in and he kept refusing, but when he finally gave you the chance, you played the regular bass player off the stand and so they fired him!

I see what you mean about networking - even if the players at the academy are great, it seems that the ones that really make it go to Berklee.

Thanks,
Dan

[janekbass]

Dan,

well lets straighten out the Airto story first....

I didn't get anyone fired from that gig at all. I used to work at Ronnie Scott's as an assistant sound engineer. When Airto and Flora arrived with their band for soundcheck one monday to begin a 4 week run at the club, I was blown away by it. It was the first time I had heard them. I learnt all their music on the monday and tuesday nights by checking out all four sets. and then on Wednesday went and knocked on the dressing room door and was greeted by Flora. She asked me what I wanted and I told her that I wanted to play with her and her band. She gave me a funny look, and said that I didn't know any of the music, and I told her I had learnt all the tunes they were playing in the previous two days. She told me to come back the next night with my bass and let me sit in on a song in the second set. I ended up playing with them for the next four weeks, and have remained close friends with them ever since. I've worked in the studio and live with Airto and Flora over the past 9 years including things with Hiram Bullock, and stuff with my own group.

Now, back to the Academy and schools and stuff.......

The Academy was a total mess when I was there. It was under the direction of Graham Collier who had no concept of how to successfully run a jazz school, and didn't have a clue of how to staff or administer the place. I think the best staff member in the whole place was the secretary who's name I wish I could remember. the harmony and arranging courses were taught by a guy that had been to berklee 30 years before, ensemble playing was rare, and most of the students on my year were away from home for the first time and wound up getting drunk a lot. I'm not saying that that is actually wrong in any way shape or form. But when I got there I was really into playing, and learning new stuff, so the environment just wasn't right for me.

I learned far more from hanging out with Laurence Cottle who was my mentor from day one of playing the bass. And yes, on a pure learning tip, I would have been much better off just transcribing. When you compare when transcribing information from records can do for you, with sitting in a class room and having someone elses ideals dictated to you..... there's a lot to be said for working on your own. but don't forget, if you find a teacher you like, you can really get a lot out of formal or informal lessons.

Berklee has become harder to get into. When I was there pretty much anyone with the money could go, but I've heard it's become a lot more rigorous in the audition process in recent years. This isn't a bad thing really. It already had some of the highest standards of students in the world, and now it will just get better.

There are some good tutors at the academy. but remember this:

what are the use of good tutors, teaching you great things, if there's no surrounding environment to put those things into practice and develop as a player. Berklee has the greatest playing situation of any school int he world, and it's 4 hrs from NYC which is an epicenter of activity in the music world.

Easy,

Janek

[Goldbass]

Janek,

Yeah, I think I exaggerated what Paul said a bit. I think he just said that you managed to get work with Airto on the strength of your performance, and I assumed that that meant the other bass player had to go. He said that you often used to go to his commercial music course and that you were learning to play sparser and less choppy in the commercial environment. He said that that was a great thing about your playing and that he thought some jazz players played way too much at pop sessions.

What do you mean by 'pretty much anyone with the money could go'? Does this mean that among the really capable students there were some with no idea what they were doing? I seem to be a bit confused about the way Berklee works in terms of what people go there

Now the academy is run by Gerard Presencer, who is certainly an incredible musician, though I know nothing of his teaching/administrating. In fact, he was down for that Bulls Head gig with you but it was Gwilym Simcock instead. He is an amazing player and the band seemed to really fit - I knew nothing of the band at the time and it wouldn't have occured to me that he wasn't part of the regular group.

Thanks,
Dan

[Angus]

Goldbass: For what it's worth, I practiced my butt off since I was little thinking that I needed to be a really polished, practiced player to get into Berklee. I applied when I was 15 because I could've graduated school early, got in, but then decided to cruise through the rest of high school and enjoy myself. I had a friend who was a guitar player (for about a year or two) who decided to switch to bass at 17. I gave him some help with technique, things to practice and watch out for, etc etc. He got into Berklee as a bass player half a year later, and he could barely play a scale cleanly.

There are definitely some very good players there (and a lot who think they are), but don't be confused- bass & Berklee is not exactly violin & Julliard. If the finances are good and you have the interest, you'll probably get in.

Of course, my friend got there, found out he wasn't the best bass player there (nor the worst, apparently), and decided to do music management because he had trouble dealing with the personalities.

After visiting one summer during high school (after I had been admitted), I decided to go somewhere else.

Sorry, I know the question wasn't directed at me, but it seems like this is a very common misconception.

[janekbass]

I have to clarify what I said about Berklee earlier on....

Angus seems not to have read what I wrote earlier on, but none the less, it's true. Times at Berklee have changed. There is now a rigorous process for being accepted to the school. between 2 and 3 people of every 10 that apply are being accepted now. This is a drastic change from 10 years ago when I auditioned to go there. There were pretty much no standards set at that time, but now it is very different.

And also, attending a summer camp at Berklee gives you virtually no idea of what campus life is like in regular semester time. Summer camps are stripped down, with lots of the faculty away on tour, and most of the student body out of the school. Summer semester is for students that need to fill in credits to graduate and tie up loose ends.

And I'm not basing any of this on hearsay. I've been back to Berklee to give masterclasses, and to teach most years since I left. The most recent being the fall semester of 2006. The standard has gotten higher, and more and more people are being turned away regardless of how much money they have.

Easy,

Janek

[Angus]

Hey Janek,

Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack the thread nor disagree with you here, just posting my experience and a buddy's! I did read your post, though.

My story was only from about 3-4 years ago, so it may have continued to get better. I imagine a larger part of why they can turn more and more applicants away to keep the better players is because the sheer number of applicants is much higher. You probably have better access to the numbers than me, but I've heard in the last 10 years their volume of applicants is multiple times greater than it used to- a very, very large increase.

I didn't do a summer camp there, as I figured it wouldn't really be worth it. No fault of Berklee's there; I think summer semesters everywhere are not indicative of standard schoolyear courseloads and instruction quality. I was there hanging out with a few other students I knew, checking out a few classes with them, talking to professors, a few things like that. Nothing particularly extensive, but I didn't claim it to be either!

I'm not saying it's a bad place at all- where I am now I know I'm getting an much lesser music education* as a second major- just that there seems to be a lot of myths perpetuated about the school. You won't get the level of instructor specificity and ensemble opportunities anywhere else, though, which is a very strong point to make.



(*Let's be honest, the music dept where I am sucks)

[DocBop]

I've been around music schools over the years both as a student and on staff. The school isn't what matter that much its all about spending time submerged in a musical environment with others of similar interest. Living with your instrument in your hands is what its all about the instruction is the fringe benefit.

Schools are getting SO expensive now some guys are taking their money move to New York, get a good teacher and play as much as they can. If dedicated you can get the same results.