In the pocket........a hinderance?

[masterinprogres]

I've been playing bass since I was 15, and just recently turned 49. I grew up listening to the pocket/groove bassists of my day, too numerous to mention. I'm a pocket player, and do that well. Problem is, when it comes time to solo, I freak, lol. I don't hear bass melodically, never have, and all of the Wooten/Pastorius/Miller slots are filled. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and happy holidays.

[Dave Martin]

The simple answer is to not solo.
The almost as simple answer is to play the groove/pattern as your solo. The good side of that is that after 5-8 measures, someone else in the band won't be able to stand it anymore and they'll start playing with you. Chicks dig it.

It's not in our job description to be 'melodic'.

[Sorax]

Having a good time feel is only to your advantage when playing melodically - it means you can play simple ideas, and people will dig it. It also means that when you go for more abstract ideas, they'll be anchored well enough that they won't sound whack. Look at any of the great improvisers - they all have a great time feel. So if you've been "playing pocket" for so long, you've got half the job down

[masterinprogres]

Originally Posted by Sorax

Having a good time feel is only to your advantage when playing melodically - it means you can play simple ideas, and people will dig it. It also means that when you go for more abstract ideas, they'll be anchored well enough that they won't sound whack. Look at any of the great improvisers - they all have a great time feel. So if you've been "playing pocket" for so long, you've got half the job down

Thank you for you respnse to my post re: In the Pocket, your input was most appreciated. Enjoy the holiday season, brother.

[masterinprogres]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

The simple answer is to not solo.
The almost as simple answer is to play the groove/pattern as your solo. The good side of that is that after 5-8 measures, someone else in the band won't be able to stand it anymore and they'll start playing with you. Chicks dig it.

It's not in our job description to be 'melodic'.

Thank you for your input on my post re: In the Pocket. Your advice was most appreciated, and helped me to feel competent again. I was beginning to think that there was no longer a place for guys like me. Thanks again for validating "it's all about the groove." Enjoy your holidays, brother.

Steve.

[janekbass]

"It's not in our job description to be 'melodic'."

I strongly disagree with this statement....

the only description about being any kind of musician is to be melodic. I think this is pretty much true through any genre of music you can dig up.

Easy,

Janek

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by janekbass

"It's not in our job description to be 'melodic'."

I strongly disagree with this statement....

the only description about being any kind of musician is to be melodic. I think this is pretty much true through any genre of music you can dig up.

Easy,

Janek

Howdy, Janek!
Despite the wonderous things that Joe Morello did (with Brubeck's quartet), I have a hard time thinking of drums, for instance, as 'melodic'.

I would rather suggest that it IS in our job description to be 'musical', but the primary role of the bass in most genres of music has historically been to be rhythmic and harmonic rather than melodic in nature. I'm not saying that bass players CAN'T be melodic, but the vast majority of recorded music in my collection don't have basses filling the melodic role.

I will accept that my CD collection is simply not well rounded enough...

[arbitrary]

Maybe there is confusion over the definition of "melodic"?

I'd consider myself (even when grooving) to be melodic.

[sleepy_monkey]

To me, "being melodic" depends on what key I am in. ;-) I can be melodic in "D" all day long, where "C" to me is more funky.....I don't know if that makes sense, but it makes sense to my fingers.

But in answer to the original question of the thread...there are several different types of players....I love to listen to pocket bassists, and while I can play in a pocket all day, I don't consider myself a pocket player...I love to doodle around and play inside the songs. But during drums and bass, etc...I think the bassist's objective is to keep the song's groove and feel together whether he is staying the same realm as before or soloing, or pocketing, etc.....

Keep it up! The world needs us all

[theNoseBleedKid]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

Howdy, Janek!
Despite the wonderous things that Joe Morello did (with Brubeck's quartet), I have a hard time thinking of drums, for instance, as 'melodic'.

I would rather suggest that it IS in our job description to be 'musical', but the primary role of the bass in most genres of music has historically been to be rhythmic and harmonic rather than melodic in nature. I'm not saying that bass players CAN'T be melodic, but the vast majority of recorded music in my collection don't have basses filling the melodic role.

I will accept that my CD collection is simply not well rounded enough...

This is a pretty whack statement, think of the most famous basslines in history, play that funky music white boy for instance. How is that NOT melody?

In my view bass is a fusion of rythmic and melodic roles, sometimes branching out to add harmony as soloer or passing phrases. But as mentioned earlier good timing and rythym is always essential.

[janekbass]

Well I have to stick with my original statement that any instrument is fundamentally melodic, and the bass is no exception.

Just because you don't play in the higher register of the instrument, or play 100's more notes at certain points in a song, doesn't mean you're not being melodic.

And as for the statement about drums not being melodic.....

I used to play in a group called Dapp Theory. I had to not only learn all the parts for the bass, but the parts for the sax, vocals, keyboards and DRUMS! all of the drum parts were written out in exact detail and were called "chants" within the concept of that music. They were incredibly melodic, and in some cases were actually the hook of the song. The drummer of the group, Sean Rickman, happens to be one of the most melodic drummer I've ever played with too. And not only is he one of the worlds greatest drumers, but he is an incredible bassist, guitarist, and singer.

check out:

with Meshell

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6uD_bKDY8

and from his solo DVD where he's playing guitar, bass and drums.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s4kSJTbzJuI


Easy,

Janek

[stretchcat]

Originally Posted by janekbass

and from his solo DVD where he's playing guitar, bass and drums.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s4kSJTbzJuI


Easy,

Janek

Aside from the obvious great drumming, that was very impressive if he also recorded the guitar and bass parts too. I need to check out more of his stuff.

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by theNoseBleedKid

This is a pretty whack statement, think of the most famous basslines in history, play that funky music white boy for instance. How is that NOT melody?

In my view bass is a fusion of rythmic and melodic roles, sometimes branching out to add harmony as soloer or passing phrases. But as mentioned earlier good timing and rythym is always essential.

I would suggest that the melody to "Play That Funky Music" would be the notes that the vocalist sings.

'Branching out to harmony' is not the same thing as 'having a harmonic role'; I've found that most of the lines that I play are, in some way, adding information about the underlying chords in a particular point of the song. That might mean playing eight notes on the root of the chord, it might be playing a root and fifth, or it might be playing a line that spells out the notes in the underlying chord, or it might be something that simply implies the key (for example, the walking bass line in a standard).

I'm not sure if this is a semantic problem, a philosophical difference, or something else entirely. but I don't see playing melodically as necessarily a good thing or a bad thing - it depends on the situation. But then, I don't see playing solos as necessarily a good thing or a bad thing...

[sir juice]

Originally Posted by masterinprogres

I've been playing bass since I was 15, and just recently turned 49. I grew up listening to the pocket/groove bassists of my day, too numerous to mention. I'm a pocket player, and do that well. Problem is, when it comes time to solo, I freak, lol. I don't hear bass melodically, never have, and all of the Wooten/Pastorius/Miller slots are filled. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and happy holidays.

Had the same problem. My first solos could only be described as "floundery". And my best advice has to be: start with the groove.

Play what is referred to in my group as a "groove solo" where it consists of slight variations on the groove whether the be rhythmic or melodic etc. and keep building up. More ideas will come. And eventually you'll be able to start your solo with ideas in your head.

[mhgroove]

Hi Janek.

I dig Dapp Theory stuff. Yea man, I dig that a lot. And speaking with drummers, I just played with The Rick, and he is great human being and a musician.

peace!

[hunta]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

Howdy, Janek!
Despite the wonderous things that Joe Morello did (with Brubeck's quartet), I have a hard time thinking of drums, for instance, as 'melodic'.

As there are higher and lower pitched drums and cymbals, can you not play melody? Perhaps you aren't hearing it that way but certainly a lot of percussive instruments are melodic, and on a drum kit there must be some reason why you select one drum over another when you're hitting a note (and not just attack and decay). Probably not too many drummers think about the drums melodically but no doubt some do.

[Andrew.Glose]

Speaking of melodic drumming, check out Ari Hoenig. More specifically, his rendition of Moanin.