Thoughts on the Big Three music cities

[Snarf]

For the last few months I had been planning on moving to NYC to play and attend grad school, studying at City College. I recently spent a couple days in the city to check out the school and to go to a high profile audition which I passed.

Now I'm at a crossroads. I realized that I HATE New York. I can no longer really envision living there. The lifestyle is so completely counter to my personality. The whole town seems totally wired, all the time, yet depressed at the same time. I would have to live in abject poverty in a bad neighborhood to even come remotely close to being able to afford to live there. Plus, carrying all my gear around the city (2 electrics and an electric DB, with clothes in the pockets), even using cabs sometimes, screwed up my knee and my back. I'm now recovering back at home.

So I've pretty much scratched one of the "Big Three" off my list. And I already am totally disinterested in LA because of the plasticity of it.

This leaves Nashville. I hear it's much more laid back, which suits me great. It's also in the south, which I'm finding I have more in common with the south's approach to life and culture than my native northeast. Plus, it's supposed to be more driveable, the cost of living is lower, and I'd be able to drive around with my gear to gigs. I really like bluegrass, and I'm okay with comtemporary country as well. And I feel like being a more northeast-style bassist would be a useful and interesting asset in Nashville.

I was thinking, if I can get a good scholarship to study jazz/commercial music at Belmont, Nashville should be a damn good fit for me. I'm thinking it's a good thing to do and a good place to do it while I'm waiting for said gig from said audition to come through. And the masters degree gives me the flexibility to teach at the college level, which is of great interest to me.

So my question to you, Janek, is do you agree with my assessment of the major music markets, and what do you think of Nashville? Do people you know there like it, and are they able to find any kind of work?

Thanks!

[b-ron_50]

I lived in Nashville for a few months while doing an internship. I fell in love with the area. I had a decent sized one bedroom apartment in Hermitage and commuted the 15 minutes to my internship. I felt very comfortable living by myself in this area. But I have had friends in other areas that are a little shady.

I have several friends that are living down in Nashville now and working various jobs. It took them a little bit of work and hustling to get their jobs, so I do know jobs are available. A few of the people I worked along side actually went to Belmont and they highly recommended it (one had her MBA from there).

I, myself, am looking at moving back down once my woman finishes her nursing program. I really can't think of anything bad to say about the Nashville area.

[janekbass]

the first thing I would suggest is that you don't count out anywhere until you've actually spent a serious about of time there. What you're not going to get anywhere is the thing it seems you're trying to avoid by counting out NYC and LA. Wherever you move it will be tough, it will be hard work, and less than ideal living conditions. Unless by some miracle you get picked up right away and have high paid work, you're going to have to work your way into the scene just like everyone else. I would make NYC or LA your #1 priority rather than counting them out. No matter what kind of work you want to end up doing, they are without doubt the two epicenters of entering the music industry as a musician. They both offer slightly different landscapes as far as a career goes, but they are pretty much the only places worth living in this time period for someone entering the music scene as a sideman.

I think music and creativity in general thrives from a city or town being wired. I would see that as a bonus rather than a handicap, and move as close to that creative energy you possibly could as a musician.

Janek

[jakkkk]

What he said!

[Kobaia]

There is also Miami, Austin, and Las Vegas. All 3 of those have a vibrant music scene as well. Seattle, San Francisco, and Kansas City also but to a lesser extent.

[rtav]

Hey

I lived in Nashville for 30+ years. The climate is definitely better than NYC, but there are weeks on end in the summer where the temp stays above 90 and the humidity is right there with it - minus any wind (Nashville sits in a geological bowl just west of the Cumberland plateau and there's very little wind... something I had to get used to moving to Chicago).

It is a beautiful city, with endless hills, trees, and places to make a left turn (lol!) It's got a good vibe in general, and some of the most beautiful countryside anywhere (head south on Hillsboro Road and you'll see).

As far as the music business, it's extremely insular. Unless you know somebody who knows somebody "in the bidness," you're unlikely to get far. I hate to sound cynical, but even with "industry connections," it's extremely hard to get anyone to listen.. I actually met producers to demo my stuff only to have them listen 30 seconds, make some totally incoherent comment, and then suggest I listen to what they're working on! Everyone wants to be heard, but no one is listening.

That being said, the cost of living is relatively low, the people friendly, the city is historic and beautiful. Go for it... but it's easier to break into Obama's bedroom than the "bidness" in Nashville.

Good luck!

[Violen]

I love Los Angeles, cant wait to move back.

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by rtav

Hey

I lived in Nashville for 30+ years. The climate is definitely better than NYC, but there are weeks on end in the summer where the temp stays above 90 and the humidity is right there with it - minus any wind (Nashville sits in a geological bowl just west of the Cumberland plateau and there's very little wind... something I had to get used to moving to Chicago).

It is a beautiful city, with endless hills, trees, and places to make a left turn (lol!) It's got a good vibe in general, and some of the most beautiful countryside anywhere (head south on Hillsboro Road and you'll see).

As far as the music business, it's extremely insular. Unless you know somebody who knows somebody "in the bidness," you're unlikely to get far. I hate to sound cynical, but even with "industry connections," it's extremely hard to get anyone to listen.. I actually met producers to demo my stuff only to have them listen 30 seconds, make some totally incoherent comment, and then suggest I listen to what they're working on! Everyone wants to be heard, but no one is listening.

That being said, the cost of living is relatively low, the people friendly, the city is historic and beautiful. Go for it... but it's easier to break into Obama's bedroom than the "bidness" in Nashville.

Good luck!

Were you pitching original music to record companies? That's what it sounded like in your post. That's something I definitely won't be doing, as I'm a freelance bassist and not an aspiring recording artist.

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by Kobaia

There is also Miami, Austin, and Las Vegas. All 3 of those have a vibrant music scene as well. Seattle, San Francisco, and Kansas City also but to a lesser extent.

I don't have DIRECT experience with Miami, but I've had friends who've tried to play jazz and rock gigs down there, and my impression is that unless you're heavily into the Latin or dance thing, there's not a lot of work.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by rtav

Hey

I lived in Nashville for 30+ years. The climate is definitely better than NYC, but there are weeks on end in the summer where the temp stays above 90 and the humidity is right there with it - minus any wind (Nashville sits in a geological bowl just west of the Cumberland plateau and there's very little wind... something I had to get used to moving to Chicago).

It is a beautiful city, with endless hills, trees, and places to make a left turn (lol!) It's got a good vibe in general, and some of the most beautiful countryside anywhere (head south on Hillsboro Road and you'll see).

As far as the music business, it's extremely insular. Unless you know somebody who knows somebody "in the bidness," you're unlikely to get far. I hate to sound cynical, but even with "industry connections," it's extremely hard to get anyone to listen.. I actually met producers to demo my stuff only to have them listen 30 seconds, make some totally incoherent comment, and then suggest I listen to what they're working on! Everyone wants to be heard, but no one is listening.

That being said, the cost of living is relatively low, the people friendly, the city is historic and beautiful. Go for it... but it's easier to break into Obama's bedroom than the "bidness" in Nashville.

Good luck!

This supports things I've heard too. I recall reading interviews with both Willie Weeks and Bob Babbitt, two guys with lots and lots of great stuff on their reumes even before they got to Nashville saying they couldn't get in. And if they can't get in then I have to wonder how anyone else gets in.

[pedro]

To OP are you at this time more interested in getting an advanced degree or establishing a permanent residence to pursue a music career?

[Calebmundy]

I wouldnt knock L.A. Or NYC, but the idea that they are the only national music scene's worth hitting is ludicrous. Nashville is a very thick scene with a lot of work on a lotmof different levels. I have dozens of friends making a decent living (none getting rich) playing everything: in-town bars, week-long casino residency tours, small publishing/indie sessions, major label recordings, and national big time rours and television dates. Its far from just country, and there is a legend from an outside genre moving here from LA or NYC about twice a month, because of the work scene and quality of life.

It's also a pretty easy town to get started in if you're a good enough player. No offense to the previous poster, but people drop into town here all the time and start working. it usually seems to take somewhere between 6 months and 2 years to get into a full time spot if you've got the goods. If youre doing the artist thing, it's easily as tough as he mentioned, but as a player, it's not nearly as bad.

[pedro]

Still looking for the interview with Willie Weeks but here's Bob Babbitt's comments on moving to Nashville.

When the synth-bass heavy dance wave took over radio waves in the mid-eighties, finding work became a lot harder. Suddenly keyboard players and sequencers were dominating the bass chores in the studio, and bass guitar was often considered a dated sound. Bob knew when to take his cue and relocated to Nashville, where he still resides to this day. "With the Nashville recording scene there's still a live element," he explains. "I've never done any mainstream country sessions, and I've been here for over 20 years. The only thing I can say about Nashville that's disheartening-- and I have friends that experienced the same thing-- is that when I first came here I met with or called maybe a dozen of the key producers in town. They'd say 'Oh you live here now, oh man, give me your phone number, I've got a project for you.' And that makes you feel great, like you made the right move. But I haven't heard from those guys, never heard from any of them. I see them on the street once in a while, and you know what they say to you? 'Are you still here?' It's unbelievable. But you have to respect the fact-- and I do-- that they're loyal to their players. And Nashville has people coming here from all over the world, so I was fortunate in meeting some people from other countries that kept me busy. I even went over to tour in Norway several times. I guess once in a while you look back and ask yourself if you regret coming here, but everybody wants to come here now. It's unbelievable who lives here. And there's a variety of music here, it's great. It's not just one genre."

[Roy Vogt]

Here's my column from Mel Bay's Bass Sessions on breaking into Nashville:
http://archive.basssessions.com/dec07/Vogt.html
Also, since most of my working life has been here, the Music Business columns here are good:
http://www.eden-electronics.com/info.../roy/index.asp
As are Sean O'Bryan Smith's here:
http://www.eden-electronics.com/info.../mbs/index.asp
IME, Nashville does need good players, and if you show up, network like crazy, are ready to deliver the goods when the time comes and really seek to understand what people need from you here, you'll do fine. Caleb's one of my former Belmont students and he's dead on about this. My time in the trenches was 30 years ago, so he'd know more about what's happening now for players trying to break in.
Best of luck-and I'd finally add that it's important to realize what kind of music you'll be playing in all 3 places (or more-I happen to love the Music Scenes in Toronto, London, Austin, and New Orleans myself) and if that will make you truly happy.

[brekfustuvluzer]

been to all of them and i would live in austin before any of the "big 3." its and easier scene to break into when you're new also.

[pedro]

IME, Nashville does need good players, and if you show up, network like crazy, are ready to deliver the goods when the time comes and really seek to understand what people need from you here, you'll do fine.

Did you read the comments from Bob Babbitt posted above? Willie Weeks had similar experiences.

I'm not sure how any list of music cities in the U.S. doesn't include Chicago.

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by pedro

Did you read the comments from Bob Babbitt posted above? Willie Weeks had similar experiences.

I'm not sure how any list of music cities in the U.S. doesn't include Chicago.

Bob's a good friend of mine, so I know his story. Willie actually took lessons from me for a brief (and humbling) time.
Here's the deal: No one is going to cruise into town and take Michael Rhodes, Byron House, Dennis Crouch or Dave Roe off their gigs and studio accounts. It simply doesn't work that way. What you have to do is create your own network of people who will hire you. Michael's contacts are people he hung out, starved and scrapped with who worked their way into a good position to hire him. Ditto Byron (hanging with a vibe-y Americana guitar slinger like Buddy Miller who became Robert Plant's go-to guy for Band of Joy certainly didn't hurt and there's absolutely no way Byron could have seen that coming when he was doing all those funky sessions at Buddy's home studio). Byron has a 30 year relationship with Sam Bush and when he took off on the Band of Joy tour the gig went to Todd Parks, a great electric and upright player who had been logging time in the band of Sam's buddy Jerry Douglas. Basically, you have to grow your own network and when those people move up the food chain they take you with them.
Trust me, when I moved here I thought "I've got more chops than all these Hillbillies put together-I'll own this town and take all their gigs." Wrong! Loyalty trumps the New Kid Syndrome here. Also, chops don't matter anywhere close to understanding what to play when and that elusive "feel" element.
Chicago's a good town. My friends Bill Dickens and Chuck Webb do well there. Right now from what I've heard the money is in the Mega-Church gigs like it is in Atlanta and Dallas, for that matter.

[stu1965]

id vote for the music program at U of Miami. Amazingness coming from there for many many ears. err....years.

[CactusBass]

Spoken like someone who has never spent any length of time in LA and has jumped to hasty conclusion...

Originally Posted by Snarf

So I've pretty much scratched one of the "Big Three" off my list. And I already am totally disinterested in LA because of the plasticity of it.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Bob's a good friend of mine, so I know his story. Willie actually took lessons from me for a brief (and humbling) time.
Here's the deal: No one is going to cruise into town and take Michael Rhodes, Byron House, Dennis Crouch or Dave Roe off their gigs and studio accounts. It simply doesn't work that way. What you have to do is create your own network of people who will hire you. Michael's contacts are people he hung out, starved and scrapped with who worked their way into a good position to hire him. Ditto Byron (hanging with a vibe-y Americana guitar slinger like Buddy Miller who became Robert Plant's go-to guy for Band of Joy certainly didn't hurt and there's absolutely no way Byron could have seen that coming when he was doing all those funky sessions at Buddy's home studio). Byron has a 30 year relationship with Sam Bush and when he took off on the Band of Joy tour the gig went to Todd Parks, a great electric and upright player who had been logging time in the band of Sam's buddy Jerry Douglas. Basically, you have to grow your own network and when those people move up the food chain they take you with them.
Trust me, when I moved here I thought "I've got more chops than all these Hillbillies put together-I'll own this town and take all their gigs." Wrong! Loyalty trumps the New Kid Syndrome here. Also, chops don't matter anywhere close to understanding what to play when and that elusive "feel" element.
Chicago's a good town. My friends Bill Dickens and Chuck Webb do well there. Right now from what I've heard the money is in the Mega-Church gigs like it is in Atlanta and Dallas, for that matter.

Interesting but the point (to me anyway) is that two guys of that calliber, reputation, success, trackrecord, etc. having that much trouble breaking into the scene that is that cliquish imagine how much more difficult for the guy right out of the blocks.

Chicago has a great blues and jazz scenes. My son studied with Larry Gray on the southside and I know there is a steady parade of talent coming thru the area.