Alternative materials for bass strings?

[grisezd]

I searched and did not find. If there have been threads I'd appreciate a link.

Bass guitar strings have had the same construction and for the most part materials forever. The only alternative material I've noticed is the silicone strings used on the Ashbury and Kala.

Steel strings work well, so there's no real great need to make a change, but I wonder if anyone has seen alternative materials used on a bass. If there is no ferrous metal in the string a different transducer is going to be needed (piezo, optical, accelerometer based, etc), so there's a real reason not to change!

But yea, any promising technologies? This is purely a geek inquiry on my part. I'm not thinking right now about whether some alternative would be better in some way, just different.

Thanks for indulging me!

[SLaPiNFuNK]

I think it comes from durability and cost of manufacturer.

T-I and LaBella make Nylon Core strings... The Thomastik-Infeld Acoustic Bass Guitar strings are Nylon Core wrapped with Phosphor Bronze. LaBella also has a similar string, although they stopped making them for "piccolo" tuning.

Those would be used on Piezo equipped instruments.

GHS has a string called the "Progressives" that uses a "Filament Grade Alloy" although I am not sure how different that is from other steel core strings.

Even if strings are Nickel Plated Steel / Pure Nickel / Nylon Tape Wound, they generally have Steel cores. Other core materials will stretch too much overtime and not hold up to the tensions.

On the upright bass side of things we can look at GUT strings, however, those cost multiples of what even the most expensive electric bass string sets cost...

[grisezd]

I would imagine that there are plastics beyond nylon that would work well. Where are the kevlar thread strings?

I agree that steel is going to rule for the forseeable future. It's a pretty well developed technology.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

As far as Kevlar, from my experience in the auto parts industry at least, kevlar was usually used with some form of carbon fiber. I never made anything with the stuff, however all that I came in contact with was hard stiff and rigid. Before it gets to that state I do not know how flexible it is or durable to holding up to vibrations etc. Stopping a bullet once is one thing, but making something out of the material to be flexible (which I do not believe the armor is) and durable, really not sure...

I remember Carbon Kevlar Canards for over $300. If they so much as brushed up against a curb they were toast...

[JdoubleH]

Guts anyone?

Seriously, though i'm not sure if there's much to gain. An alternate material would need to match not only the tensile strength of steel, but the resiliency and shape retention as well. Not only that, but kevlar, aramid and other synthetic fibers might lack sufficient mass to vibrate with the kind of sustain or tone that you get from steel and metal alloys. There would also needed to be compelling reasons to reinvent this wheel. But if someone comes up with something that opens new doors, i'm in.

geek on!

[Catbuster]

Sinew?

[JdoubleH]

Originally Posted by Catbuster

Sinew?

only suitable for washtub bass

[JdoubleH]

Originally Posted by JdoubleH

only suitable for washtub bass

Hemp, sisal and jute as well.

[ddawson2012]

Currently, D'Addario utilizes Kevlar in the manufacture of their violin strings. It's used more as a dampening agent but also assists in producing a specific tonality. Cost is clearly a big concern. We talk here about "affordable" strings. It's one thing if you're an upright player - paying in excess of $150 or more (mostly more) is the norm but the life expectancy is much greater than a set for an electric.

Do you think the Electric Market is ready for some exotic bass string made from a high-cost material? Certainly the life-expectancy would have much to say about that.

Don Dawson
Marketing Specialist
D'Addario/Planet Waves

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

As far as Kevlar, from my experience in the auto parts industry at least, kevlar was usually used with some form of carbon fiber. I never made anything with the stuff, however all that I came in contact with was hard stiff and rigid. Before it gets to that state I do not know how flexible it is or durable to holding up to vibrations etc. Stopping a bullet once is one thing, but making something out of the material to be flexible (which I do not believe the armor is) and durable, really not sure...

I remember Carbon Kevlar Canards for over $300. If they so much as brushed up against a curb they were toast...

[onestring]

This is such a great question. I would love to hear some strings made from different/unusual materials. Not even high tech necessarily. The Thomastik-Infelds have silk in them, and it makes for a very distinctive string. Seems like there's lots of crazy stuff you could wrap on a ferrous core.

Don, I'd definitely pay more for a great string. Switched a long time ago from XLs to TIs, and even though the TIs cost four or five times as much, they last me years (one set of mine is a decade old now).

Would I buy a set of $150 strings? If they sounded great, felt great and would last a couple years: absolutely. Before I switched to TIs I was easily spending that much a year on strings I had to replace monthly just to keep the sound I wanted. I'd love to see you guys come out with something high-end that improves on the TIs, I bet you could.

Wrap it and they will come.

[JonahTheAmazing]

Besides the previously mentioned nylons and the DeArmond strings, I couldn't think of a one. A Kevlar based string sounds insane to me. Strings already cost enough as is!

Rubber bands?

[Willicious]

Originally Posted by ddawson2012

Do you think the Electric Market is ready for some exotic bass string made from a high-cost material?

Definitely.
I'm intrigued by the silicone strings used on the Kala, and the resulting tone.

[grisezd]

Man, I'm happy with all of the responses so far, and thanks Don for bringing some industry insight.

This train of thought came out of thoughts I had on a thread about "women specific" basses. That expanded in my mind to "basses that take less physical strength and size to play". Things have plenty of room to expand in my mind, not much else going on in there.

I've found that the shorter the scale of a bass with steel strings the less I like the sound. And the super short scale (and low effort) silicone strings sound good but the scale is uncomfortably short for me to intonate well (on fretless). I don't know if they scale up.

So I wonder if there is some material that will sound good in a short, maybe 25in scale, and offer a reduced effort to play. There are ideal material properties that can make this work, but I'm no materials expert!

[subject42]

Originally Posted by Willicious

Definitely.
I'm intrigued by the silicone strings used on the Kala, and the resulting tone.

I thought they were polyurethane and it was the Ashbory strings that were silicone.

[Willicious]

Originally Posted by subject42

I thought they were polyurethane and it was the Ashbory strings that were silicone.

Oops. Indeed, you are correct on that.

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by ddawson2012

Do you think the Electric Market is ready for some exotic bass string made from a high-cost material?

Off topic but ... Don, i think the market is ready for equal tension (balanced tension) sets. I have a great respect for D'Addario for publishing the tension chart, unit weight values for each string, tension values for each set on the website and on the packages. This enabled us to understand and calculate tension and then question why the tension varies so much across a set, we designed our own sets and experimented with equal tensions and many of us now see great advantages to equal tension sets. There is now an equal tension guitar set EXL111. However i do understand that most bass players may still want traditional tension sets and are scared off by anything different ... D'Addario may just be providing what is wanted.

[darkstorm]

Strings made from a magnetic suitable (electric bass needs magnetism with pups, unless your doing lightwave bass, which may not need that), but anyway, strings made from the metal of another planet with properties combining the best of steal and nickel and elements unknown on earth. By furry bear looking critters who want that special sound of electric bass to accompany their drum circles. Lol.

[ddawson2012]

Originally Posted by ixlramp

Off topic but ... Don, i think the market is ready for equal tension (balanced tension) sets. I have a great respect for D'Addario for publishing the tension chart, unit weight values for each string, tension values for each set on the website and on the packages. This enabled us to understand and calculate tension and then question why the tension varies so much across a set, we designed our own sets and experimented with equal tensions and many of us now see great advantages to equal tension sets. There is now an equal tension guitar set EXL111. However i do understand that most bass players may still want traditional tension sets and are scared off by anything different ... D'Addario may just be providing what is wanted.

Duly noted and I'll be sure to share this with some of the development folks. Ya never know what they're thinkin'! Thanks for the insight.

[TheEmptyCell]

Originally Posted by ddawson2012

Duly noted and I'll be sure to share this with some of the development folks. Ya never know what they're thinkin'! Thanks for the insight.

I agree with ixlramp, balanced tension sets are needed in the more affordable string market. I'm personally itching to try a set of the EXL Red's that came out recently.

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by ddawson2012

Duly noted and I'll be sure to share this with some of the development folks. Ya never know what they're thinkin'! Thanks for the insight.

Cool man