Arco on fretless bass: flatwound vs roundwound

[Sandu]

I'm currently defretting my Aria STB jazz, and besides fingerstyle I want to use a bow from time to time, 'cause sometimes the cello and the double bass just seem to be the ultimate instruments (depends on what I'm listening at the time). Will roundwounds or flatwounds give me that sound (cello/DB) that I'm looking for? To give you the full picture, I'll be using a cello bow and a fretless 4 string jazz bass with an epoxied rosewood board (I also could have a DB bow or an oil finished board, should any of those be more useful in giving me THE sound).

PS: I could also consider an Ebow as opposed to a regular bow if you guys think it would work better, but it's very hard to come by here in EU (moreso maybe here in Romania) and I'm thinking the notes wouldn't have the attack I'm also after, like a plectrum, finger or bow, they'd just drone in and out.

[D.A.R.K.]

i've used a bow on bg in the past, i had good results with both round and flat wound strings, although using rosin tends to muck up the strings just like on eub or db.... although i did need more rosin for the bg to get it to speak. i found round wounds will also damage the bow easily (the hairs getting caught a bit more between the windings).
it doesn't sound much like cello, db, or eub to me...
sounds like a bowed bg.
i like it.

[Hemispheres85]

Bad idea man.

The shapes of electric basses do not lend themselves to being played arco. If you tried, you'd need to bow around where the 14th fret is, as the body will block most movement, and it won't sound good no matter what kind of strings you out on it. I've tried, it sounds terrible. The hand positioning of the bow would be awful and unless you set your action 3'' above the pickups, it's not going to work.

If you want a fretless electric bass sound that you can bow as well- get a NS design electric cello. Tuned the same as a bass, can be played as one or played arco as well. They're expensive, but what you're describing is going to sound terrible no matter how you put it.

[hunta]

I think you would want to use flatwounds. The reason is surface area. A flat surface will provide you with the most surface area, and thus a larger contact surface between the bow and your strings. You would get more of a deeper bowlike sound by using the neck pickup rather than the bridge. For rosin I would try cello rosin (or maybe even violin rosin) over bass rosin, BG strings are lower gauge than DB strings so a lighter rosin will probably be preferable. If the sound still isn't what you want, consider using some kind of sub-octave effect maybe with some reverb.

Any kind of rosin is going to cause some nasty buildup on your bass and possibly get into your pickups and electronics... Cleaning it out could be a pain in the bootie

An alternative to a real e-bow is any hand held device with an electric motor. You can use an electric shaver, drill, vibrator (good for some laughs! hee hee), or whatever. Adam Jones from tool is somewhat well known for using an Epilady on his guitar

[hunta]

Originally Posted by Hemispheres85

Bad idea man.

The shapes of electric basses do not lend themselves to being played arco.

I don't think he wants to always play this way, just for effect from time to time. It worked for Jimmy Page As long as you realize it isn't going to sound like a real authentic DB, no prob.

[Sandu]

Well I'm not gonna be terribly disappointed if it won't be easy to play, after all it's a makeshift solution and I'm fully aware of it. I'm also aware of all the inherent problems of what I'm attempting, and that's exactly why I want everything else to work right.
To clear it up: My main goal at the moment is learning to play fretless. I got the arco idea from a couple of youtube videos (some Ebowed basses and bowed guitars, but no bowed basses), and I decided that spending 30 euros on a cello bow for the sake of experimenting won't kill me. BUT I also want make the best of it, 'cause experimenting is one thing, and throwing money out the window is another thing. I didn't say I want to turn it into a cello/DB, I'm happy if it clumsily imitates one. As for the practical aspects of bowing and the technique, I may have found a few solutions, but that's not currently the point. I'm confident I'll deal with those problems when the time comes, since I'm quite a resourceful old chap.

[Sandu]

Originally Posted by hunta

I don't think he wants to always play this way, just for effect from time to time. It worked for Jimmy Page As long as you realize it isn't going to sound like a real authentic DB, no prob.

Beat me to it

[Pilgrim]

I learned on upright bass. You can't really play an electric bass with any facility using a bow. You need more arc on the bridge and more space separation between the strings then electrics offer to be able to use a bow. If you want to experiment with different bridges, you might make it work, but even for occasional use I can't see how you could have a bass that plays acceptably using fingerstyle and could be bowed well. You'd have to set the action at least 3x higher than normal...meaning you'd sacrifice playability for the 99% of music you play without the bow. I'd suggest one of the electric models that are specifically designed to emulate an upright bass neck and fingerboard.

[D.A.R.K.]

never say never... nothing says you can't do it. (except some people who haven't tried, apparently)...when i bowed my bg, i had to come up with a technique that worked... of course there isn't the same type of radius as a db, but you can easily mute strings as well as come up with great drones and chord movements, and harmonics. try different tunings.
there are plenty of folks who have done this, i copped the idea from another player myself. just thought i'd also add that my main instrument is an ns 5 string eub...i play 50% pizz, 50% arco.
if anyone says "you can't do that" with something like this, you know you're on the right track, and owe it to yourself to try it.
just put in the time to develop the proper approach.

[Sandu]

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

never say never... nothing says you can't do it. (except some people who haven't tried, apparently)...

if anyone says "you can't do that" with something like this, you know you're on the right track, and owe it to yourself to try it.
just put in the time to develop the proper approach.

Yeah, that's pretty much my approach to stuff I'm not supposed to or "cannot" do (though the same approach nearly got me killed last year, so be advised ye adventurers and mountaneers).

I guess I'll go the roundwound route for the moment... I haven't got the budget for a nice set of flatwounds, and the strings I got the bass with did manage to make it sound unexpectedly good. It would have been nice to get more ontopic replies, though I can't blame you guys, you must have seen quite a few similar situations that went sour.

Anyway, off I go to give the fb a smaller radius and shim the neck.

[Pilgrim]

I hope it works for you - I just see it as requiring some compromises that would result in an instrument that's not optimum for either playing style.

Hey, I didn't say never. It may be that my expectations would be quite different than yours, since I originally played orchestral bass.