B strings: Factors that affect feel and "tightness"

ElBajista · #1 09-10-2006, 09:01 PM

This has been on my mind for a while....

Why do people ask if a certain Bass has a "good B string?" I know that scale has to do with it (34" vs. 35"+) but, ultimately, wouldn't the feel and "tightness" of a B string be subjective to the gauge and design of the individual string?

I can't think of anything that affects B string feel and tightness besides scale length, string construction, and string gauge. Am I missing something?

Tony G · #2 09-10-2006, 09:09 PM

With my recent quest to find a 5-string bass in my price range, I have been playing a lot of basses. I know you mentioned it, but the 35" scale basses had a tighter B than the 34" basses. I'm not sure there is much more that affects it.

Jeralya · #3 09-10-2006, 09:13 PM

How the pups resond to it and how tight it is are not subjective to strings or setup exclusively, the bass plays a big part.

Philbiker · #4 09-11-2006, 07:58 AM

Playing style. You can't be ham-handed with the B string. Each string requires a different touch, the "B" isn't different than the others in this regard, each string has a different playfeel. You can't attack the "B" like a new "E" just like you wouldn't play the "E" like the "G".

lug · #5 09-11-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeralya

How the pups resond to it and how tight it is are not subjective to strings or setup exclusively, the bass plays a big part.

+1 How rigid the neck is can be critical. Another big factor often overlooked is string height. We often get in the "low as it can go" mode with 4 string but this usually isn't best on a low B. By raising the string height just a little bit, you can add a good bit of percieved tension to your B.

pickles · #6 09-11-2006, 09:19 AM

Tone has a lot to do with string feel, not just on the B. The way you are hearing the note envelope affects the way you play, so a bass with a great sounding low-B might feel "tighter" or "more solid" even though it has the same tension and flexability as another bass. Sometimes a different blend setting can make a B string sorta "feel" different. I think where people notice "flop" is at the ear, not the fingertip.

I've had some 34" scale basses that had great Bs, notably the Sadowsky, Fender RBV, Stingray 5, and G&L L2500. I've also had some 35" basses with so-so Bs. I think neck stiffness, tone, and pickups have more do do with it than scale.

I agree with you that the string type and guage makes a huge difference, and any given bass will react differently to various string sets, so it pays to experiment. With a non tapered string it is also KEY to get the B string to lay flat across the witness point at the saddle. I use the padded handle of my wire cutters to flatten the arc of the low strings both in front of and behind the saddle, looking to crimp the core so that the string leaves the saddle perfecly flat, and its free to vibrate as it should. You just can't expect a string to behave properly if its own stiffness is causing it to arc upward at the witness point! Tapercore strings don't have that problem.

DavePlaysBass · #7 09-11-2006, 06:34 PM

Neck relief.

Dincrest · #8 09-11-2006, 06:43 PM

Wouldn't neck joint play a part too? I mean, if a bolt-neck isn't super properly tightly fitted into its rout, wouldn't it mess up the resonance and thus choke the tone on the strings?

DavePlaysBass · #9 09-11-2006, 09:10 PM

To quote Rudy in the Fender Forum regarding nearly every question "It's a crapshoot". You have a large number of variables with interactions that few understand and you get what you get.

pickles · #10 09-12-2006, 07:33 AM

Yet there are some builders who consistently achieve great low-Bs.

Fuzzbass · #11 09-12-2006, 01:36 PM

When people refer to a "floppy B", I believe most are referring to tone. IME, the thicker the string, the quicker it dies (the bigger it is, the harder it falls?). There are lots of showroom fivers with floppy B's simply because the string is dead.

Intonation is another critical factor. IME it's harder to intonate thicker strings, and improper intonation can give the appearance of a "floppy B". I prefer taperwound B strings because IME it's easier to intonate them properly and (perhaps because of this?) they seem to have superior tone. Roger Sadowsky seems to agree, because his strings have tapered B's. Proper setup (string height and intonation) can turn many floppy B's into tight ones (tone-wise).

What gives a tight-sounding B? In addition to proper setup, there's quality construction: good neck joint, stiff neck. Graphite composite necks are amazingly stiff, but of course have different tone than wood. Quality construction: proper seating of frets, nut, bridge, etc... and quality strings, of course. There are many other factors but these are most important IMO.

Increasing scale length does increase tension and makes for tighter feel, but that doesn't necessarily mean tighter tone. Extended length gives different tone... quality is subjective. After owning some nice 35" basses (Modulus, MTD USA, Lull), I've mostly gone back to 34" because the timbre is slightly more traditional, and 34" B strings (Fender, Benavente, Sadowsky) suit me just fine; I don't feel they're inferior. I've heard clips of 37" and 39" B strings (Dingwall, Knuckle), and while the consistency, clarity, and harmonic content are amazing, the timbre isn't as traditional to my ears: I like aggressive tone but old-school timbre.

My two-cents-plus after becoming a hardcore 5anatic back in Y2K.

Philbiker · #12 09-12-2006, 02:59 PM

Nice post Fuzzbass, and nice new flame avatar.

I pretty much agree with Fuzzes entire dissertation. Fuzz, I think the "harmonic content" and "timbre" you're observing in 34" basses has a lot to do with subtle harmonic overtones that you're used to hearing. I've read here that these overtones are different on different scale basses as a possible theory why some of us intone better on a 34" fretless than a 35". I certainly do, when I went from my Dean Edge 5 (35") to my Brice my fretless intonation sounded better to me as if overnight and I couldn't figure out why. Harmonic overtones.

Anyway, back to the thread.

Fuzzbass has a Fender Roscoe Beck V that he brought to a GTG at my house one time, I have a passive Jazz V, both similar vintage. The Jazz V has a (n extremely undeserved in my opinion) reputation for having a lousy "B" string, wheras the Roscoe Beck has a rep for having a nice solid "B". Playing both back-to-back the "B" strings felt the same to me. They sounded different obviously because they are different basses.

Anyway, the point is both basses were set up with care and had good strings on 'em, and guess what. Both basses felt about the same, at least to me.

kayakbass · #13 09-12-2006, 04:07 PM

I agree with Fuzz and Philbiker. Scale plays a big part. Ask a pianist the difference between a concert grand and an upright! just think about the way the soundboard is shaped on a piano: the bass strings are longer and the treble strings are shorter. This makes the entire instrument "balance" sonically. I also learned that your touch makes a huge difference. I studied with Gary Willis for a while and just marveled at his B. He plays very lightly. This keeps the string from actually starting sharp upon a hard attack and then decaying down into pitch. Turn on you tuner and watch the needle and when you play hard and then again with a softer attack. Bottom line is (sorry for the pun) you have to find a bass that agrees with YOU: Your ears, your hands and you wallet! Happy hunting!

PaulMacCnj · #14 09-12-2006, 04:19 PM

The strings certainly are a factor. I changed brands from the factory Spector Nickel to Dean Markley NickelSteel but the B string is still .130. The DM NickelSteels are higher tension and, therefore, the B string isn't as floppy.

Paul Mac

EADG mx · #15 09-15-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElBajista

I can't think of anything that affects B string feel and tightness besides scale length, string construction, and string gauge. Am I missing something?

String mass, although that tends to tie in with gauge. Strings of a higher gauge typically have a higher mass, yes but two strings of the same gauge can have a different mass (take flatwounds for example).

Correct me if I am wrong, this is just knowledge I've collected on the forums over the past little while. I am not a B string user (I use a high C) and have only used one gauge of B that came with my bass, so I can't really speak from experience.