Balanced tension flatwounds?

[Scourge441]

I've been interested in trying out some flatwounds for a few months now, but I recently switched to balanced tension strings, and I refuse to switch back because they feel and play far better in my opinion.

So, I'm wondering where I would be able to find some balanced-tension flatwound sets for a 5 string bass, preferably with a .136 B string. Right now all I can find is the progressive-tension 5 string ZOG set (which, according to the website, requires the nut to be widened and I'd like to avoid that if possible). Is there anything else out there?

[mmbongo]

www.bassstringsonline.com

You can build whatever sets you want, check out GHS Precision Flats.
http://www.bassstringsonline.com/GHS...Set_p_842.html

However, I can't imagine a flatwound .136. That thing would be so stiff you probably couldn't bend it! There's a reason nobody makes flats that huge. a .128 or .130 should be fine, and is probably as stiff if not stiffer than a .136 roundwound.

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by mmbongo

However, I can't imagine a flatwound .136. That thing would be so stiff you probably couldn't bend it! There's a reason nobody makes flats that huge.

The TI Jazz Flat 346 set has a 0.136 low B and guess what? It's floppy like the rest of them.

[mmbongo]

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

The TI Jazz Flat 346 set has a 0.136 low B and guess what? It's floppy like the rest of them.

TI is a totally different animal though

[SLaPiNFuNK]

String construction has everything to do with the floppyness...

I wouldn't exactly call the T-I Jazz Flat B-String floppy, I would more say it vibrates freely without restriction due to its construction. Great sounding B.

There are many balanced feeling flatwound sets.

There are a few I would look at.

[hoketus]

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

I wouldn't exactly call the T-I Jazz Flat B-String floppy

I wouldn't, either.

There are many factors that contribute to string tension. The string gauge alone should be used as an approximate guide only.

[chucko58]

I'm not able to find a tension chart for the GHS Precision Flats. GHS's site doesn't seem to have one.

Are there any other manufacturers with a reasonably broad range of gauges?

[jasper383]

Originally Posted by chucko58

I'm not able to find a tension chart for the GHS Precision Flats. GHS's site doesn't seem to have one.

Are there any other manufacturers with a reasonably broad range of gauges?

Use the D'Addario tension chart. I assume that the GHS flats and the Chromes will be at least close tension-wise.

http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf

[Bob Gollihur]

LOVE the TI flats, balanced IMHO, but they are not Old School THUD! strings if that's what you truly seek. Tone is far better.

[dDaddybass]

I've been curious about flats for awhile now. I had the opportunity to play a 5 string that was strung with TI 's and found them to very balanced. The B string was not floppy at all. It was a 35" scale bass, not sure how much that played in. When I buy a set of flats, I'll go with the TI 's.

[Jazzdogg]

When you're talking about "balanced tension strings," what level of consistency do they provide that "ordinary" strings do not? How much does the string tension vary from string-to-string for ordinary strings versus "balanced tension strings?"

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

When you're talking about "balanced tension strings," what level of consistency do they provide that "ordinary" strings do not? How much does the string tension vary from string-to-string for ordinary strings versus "balanced tension strings?"

It can vary quite a lot:

Your typical .100 gauge string, tuned to E has around 36 to 37 pounds of tension.

Your typical .080 gauge string, tuned to A has around 42 pounds of tension.

Your typical .065 gauge string, tuned to D has a whopping 51 pounds of tension.

And your typical .045 gauge string, tuned to G, has about 43 pounds of tension.

And of course, tuned to low B, any string under .135 has less than 36 pounds of tension.

This is why I have made the switch to using balanced tension sets. You can make any set balanced by taking a standard set and getting an extra heavy E and a light D.

Seriously, 50 pounds is too much tension for a string, imo. No idea why D strings are so heavy on most sets.

[MarkA]

I'm also looking for a balanced-tension, flatwound 6 string set. My sixer, a neck-through Ibanez Prestige, is currently strung with a balanced-tension Circle K set -- gauges as follows, from B to C:
.136 .102 .076 .057 .041 .029
It was previously strung with a stainless steel R. Cocco set:
.125 .105 .085 .065 .045 .028

The R. Coccos were nice strings in many ways, but on this bass, the .125 B was was floppy compared to the rest of the strings. The balanced set is a little lighter in terms of overall tension (had to relax the truss rods a bit when I made the switch), but the B is much better feeling, and the bass really does feel more consistent from string to string. I'm considering trying a balanced set with a .142 B (254 pounds total on a 34" scale, or ~42 lbs/string average; individual strings ranging from 40-44 lbs), but I'm curious to hear this sixer with flats, and I'd like to hear a little more fundamental out of the B.

I have a set of TI flats on a 4 string Brubaker Brute with Bart pups that, I've mentioned elsewhere, are magic on that bass. They really sing and allow for expressive playing. They're pretty flexible strings but don't feel floppy on that bass. I tried briefly swapping the TI G and D with the D'Addario half-rounds on my fretless Carvin -- on the Carvin they *were* floppy/noodly, and on the Brute the half-rounds felt and sounded like sandpapered chicken wire -- so a lot, I think, is bass dependent. For what it's worth, the TIs also slap pretty well on the Brute.

I considered the TIs for the Ibanez. I like that they retain some high-end content and midrange complexity, but I think on that bass that they might feel a little loose. Also, $100+ for the set is an expensive experiment. I'm not looking for an old-school, thuddy sound on the six-string -- I still want to be able to chord cleanly, hit harmonics, and have nice sustain. I still want some midrange character, but I'd like to start with something other than the TIs, with a balanced feel and a little more tension.

La Bella Teep Talkin' flats are advertised as balanced. Not sure which gauge I'd go with there. People have mentioned the Fender flats. A straight set would be simpler, but I'm fine mixing and matching if that's what it takes.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I might consider a set of flats for my fretless Carvin (Icon fiver) but the six is the priority at the moment.

Thanks,
Mark

[Jay2U]

I use Ernie Ball flatwounds, which I buy as singles. 0.045, 0.060, 0.080, 0.105 and 0.135 come pretty close to balanced. The tension lies between 48 and 51 pounds for E,A,D and G. B does about 45 pounds.

[Jazzdogg]

Here are the specs for the TI JF345 strings I use:

.....Pounds..Gauge
G....37.03....043"
D....37.47....056"
A....31.30....070"
E....34.39....100"
B....34.83....136"

Hope this helps.


http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/guitars/index.html

[gary m]

I'd vote for GHS Precision Flats. I have a set on my Douglas WOB sixer (strings purchased through Carvin.com) and the tension has always felt pretty balanced to my hands. They're not heavy cables, but also not the "wet noodles" that the TI flats are often compared to. Plus, they're inexpensive.

[MarkA]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Here are the specs for the TI JF345 strings I use...

That is helpful, thanks. The TI jazz flats sound and feel great on my Brute, but I'm worried that they might be a little loose on my Ibby sixer. Below, I've taken the table you kindly provided and added a C-string. I've also added the tensions of the rounds currently on there (.136"-.029", in parentheses).

.....Pounds...........Gauge
C....38.13 (36.6)....033"
G....37.03 (38.5)....043"
D....37.47 (40.4)....056"
A....31.30 (40.2)....070"
E....34.39 (40.4)....100"
B....34.83 (39.3)....136"

Who knows, the TIs might be fine on the Ibby -- more goes into the feeling and response of a string than overall tension -- but based on the strings I've tried on it so far, I'd like to stay around the tension I'm at for the low strings or maybe nudge a little higher.

I suppose if the contact points at the bridge and nut are close enough between the Ibby and Brute (don't want to kink the strings and ruin 'em for the Brute), I could take the TIs off the Brute and try them in the EADG spots on the Ibby. If they're stellar there, maybe I'll pick up a TI sixer set. Otherwise, I'll try something a little tighter and cheaper with, I hope, some of the same midrange content.

[MarkA]

Originally Posted by Jay2U

I use Ernie Ball flatwounds, which I buy as singles. 0.045, 0.060, 0.080, 0.105 and 0.135 come pretty close to balanced. The tension lies between 48 and 51 pounds for E,A,D and G. B does about 45 pounds.

Thanks. While I think the TIs might be on the loose side, 50 pounds seems a little high! How do you find the feel and sound of these, otherwise? I like the sound of the TIs pretty well. I could go a little darker/deeper on the Ibby, but don't want to go all the way to P-bass land. (Not that there's anything wrong with P-basses -- that's my fretless P in my avatar!)

[MarkA]

Originally Posted by gary m

I'd vote for GHS Precision Flats. I have a set on my Douglas WOB sixer (strings purchased through Carvin.com) and the tension has always felt pretty balanced to my hands. They're not heavy cables, but also not the "wet noodles" that the TI flats are often compared to. Plus, they're inexpensive.

I'll look into those. Impressions feel/tone-wise vs. the Ernie Balls or the La Bellas? I've read that the heavier La Bellas are pretty thumpy but the medium and lighter ones less so. I want a little more fundamental/authority than I've got now, but want to retain the ability to chord cleanly and play melodically on my sixer.

[gary m]

Originally Posted by MarkA

I'll look into those. Impressions feel/tone-wise vs. the Ernie Balls or the La Bellas? I've read that the heavier La Bellas are pretty thumpy but the medium and lighter ones less so. I want a little more fundamental/authority than I've got now, but want to retain the ability to chord cleanly and play melodically on my sixer.

To my ears, more fundamental with less tension and plenty of thump...plus they're smoother to the touch than LaBellas.