Bye bye flats

ggunn · #1 12-05-2009, 01:35 PM

I put a set of Chromes on my Bongo 5 HHp a few months ago. I tried to like them, really I did. Actually, I love the silky feel of them and they allow me to be a bit sloppy in my technique, but try as I might, I cannot get the definition out of them that I need to sit well in the live mix with the guys I play with. I'm sure it's a combination of bass, room, amp (MTI era SVT), my technique, etc., but when I listen back to rehearsal and jam night recordings, my tone just sucks. I've tried eleventy umpteen variations of amp EQ, instrument EQ, pickup blending, amp placement, ad nauseum, and even though I can get my tone sounding OK (just OK) to me when I am standing right next to my amp, when picked up by the room mics it just sounds like muhmuhmuhmuh and the first and second harmonics are overbearing.

So last night I took the flats off and put back the set of Blue Steel roundwound strings on my Bongo that were on it before them, and it sounded like I took my amp out from under a blanket. So it's bye bye flats; I love the feel of them but the sound just doesn't work for me.

YMMV.

dkelley · #2 12-05-2009, 01:56 PM

you're not the only one. I will not use flats.

I've only had success (I mean where they were superior to roundwounds to the point of being the only wise choice) on them on hollow body vintage style electric basses. I'm far too expressive of a player and find that they are (a) slower to move on (solid surface = more friction), and (b) less varied in their tone. also they're darker of course, less definition.

roundwounds were a vast improvement on string technology when they were invented. They were created to overcome the issues in tone bassists had to live with when using the then-standard flatwounds.

at least that's how I remember it :-)

flats DO sound great for specific standard bass player session duties in a recording studio though. I've rented basses with flatwounds for specific uses like that when I'm paid to do it. But for myself, on my own basses, no way baby, taper round wounds for me, or some variant.

Back in the day I used blue steels. These days not so much, I really have always loved the rotosound sound, but they're tough on your fingers and fingerboards/frets.

There are so many amazing modern strings that didn't exist when I was young, elixers, the new d'addario lines (dr or whatever), they're all just amazing compared to the blue steels I used back in the late 80s.

EagleMoon · #3 12-05-2009, 02:03 PM

I do agree that they let you be a little more sloppy with your technique, but I think that's mainly because they're so lifeless. I've tried the flats multiple times but keep going back to rounds because I can't get the grind that I like. But that being said, not everyone has the same tonal requirements, and some people like just bass and not a lot of definition. And that's fine too.

Bassman316 · #4 12-05-2009, 02:06 PM

I like playing both flats and rounds. I've been taking to flats a lot more lately, however. Actually, really since I read the "Confessions of a Flatwound Convert" thread. But, then, once in a while, I break out one of my basses with the rounds. And that's all good, too. Depends on what I think the song calls for more.

BTW, doesn't this thread belong in the strings forum?

ggunn · #5 12-05-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkelley

you're not the only one. I will not use flats.

I've only had success (I mean where they were superior to roundwounds to the point of being the only wise choice) on them on hollow body vintage style electric basses. I'm far too expressive of a player and find that they are (a) slower to move on (solid surface = more friction), and (b) less varied in their tone. also they're darker of course, less definition.

roundwounds were a vast improvement on string technology when they were invented. They were created to overcome the issues in tone bassists had to live with when using the then-standard flatwounds.

at least that's how I remember it :-)

flats DO sound great for specific standard bass player session duties in a recording studio though. I've rented basses with flatwounds for specific uses like that when I'm paid to do it. But for myself, on my own basses, no way baby, taper round wounds for me, or some variant.

Back in the day I used blue steels. These days not so much, I really have always loved the rotosound sound, but they're tough on your fingers and fingerboards/frets.

There are so many amazing modern strings that didn't exist when I was young, elixers, the new d'addario lines (dr or whatever), they're all just amazing compared to the blue steels I used back in the late 80s.

You've inspired me; I think I'll run out and get myself a new set of Rotosounds or something this afternoon.

I'll keep the Chromes on my Thunderchief, though; they sound great for a pseudo upright sound with other acoustic instruments.

Electra Player · #6 12-05-2009, 02:11 PM

To be nice, I hate flats.

All dead thumps.
Which works if you want to be Paul McCartney, but that's it.

And they just plain feel weird, I can't stand it.

vin*tone · #7 12-05-2009, 02:18 PM

I have a Ric with flats and a Musicman Sabre with rounds - its just the way they sound best. If you were after a McCartney or Jamerson vibe you'd be wanting Rounds.... I take it that's not where you're at given that you play a Bongo.

* I find that flats are great for taming certain harmonic frequencies and giving a stronger fundamental. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes that's what you don't want. I don't get this - String X is BETTER than string Y thing. They both give different tones, they both feel different.

Bassman316 · #8 12-05-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vin*tone

If you were after a McCartney or Jamerson vibe you'd be wanting Rounds

I think you mean flats, right?

Poor Tom · #9 12-05-2009, 02:21 PM

I have tried to like flats many times. They sound great to me when I am playing solo and am feeling in a soulful mood, but I prefer rounds in most situations.

wideyes · #10 12-05-2009, 02:24 PM

... the flats in question. Now obviously, flats have a number of signature sounds that distinguish them from any other string type, but within the category of flats there are many different beasts. The LaBellas on my brother's Musicman are totally different, both tonally and feelistically, than the TIs on my p-bass. Just a thought.

Bassman316 · #11 12-05-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Tom

I have tried to like flats many times. They sound great to me when I am playing solo and am feeling in a soulful mood, but I prefer rounds in most situations.

It's not too often that I read about people who actually like the sound of flats when playing solo or practicing- usually it's from experiences playing in band situations that I've read about how people like the sound of flats. I've just started to grow used to it while I'm practicing, but not too long ago I recorded my first song with a set of flats and they sounded great. However, like I said, it was my first song I've recorded with flats. The rest have been rounds so far.

bassdaddyfive · #12 12-05-2009, 02:25 PM

Flat wound strings are not for everyone, nor every bass. I use flats on some of my basses and they sound great, and not so good on other basses. With flats it depends on what type of sound you are trying to get. I understand the problems with flats on a Bongo, or any Music Man bass. I play flats on my neckthrough higher end basses with very good results. I use LaBella flats, they have a little more punch and cut than Chromes, but that's just my feelings about it. Go with what works for you.

Mudfuzz · #13 12-05-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Tom

I have tried to like flats many times. They sound great to me when I am playing solo ---- but I prefer rounds in most situations.

I feel the same way about rounds, different stroke for different folks.

Demonator · #14 12-05-2009, 02:40 PM

Do they really sound that different?

dmusic148 · #15 12-05-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonator

Do they really sound that different?

Yup. Night and day. And they FEEL really different too.

Joebone · #16 12-05-2009, 02:50 PM

Beware of absolute statements...except for the one that follows!

Rounds are better for certain basses or certain bands or certain kinds of music, and flats are better for others.

And while I'd agree that most rounds provide more expression than flats, TI jazz flats on a Fender P/J are giving me oodles of expression, especially on left-hand techniques. OK, it's not a standard P/J, as it's a custom shop with 22-fret ebony board and narrow frets, that I stole off of ebay 'cuz no one seems to have recognized it for what it is. But those TJ's are the JAM on this axe, better than the DR Sunbeams or R. Cocco nickelwounds that I favor for roundwound situations. I'm also getting ok expression from La Bella flats (not the Jamerson version), which are mating nicely with an MM SR5...except I'm not yet sure that the B-string is cutting it, due to some weird intonation/pitch issues.

So far, in my limited experience, rounds rule flats when it comes to B strings.

And for expression, I'm finding that lower-tension strings seem to let more left-hand expression shine through, either flat or round.

Those TJ flats are exceptionally expressive.

pjmuck · #17 12-05-2009, 02:50 PM

Different strokes for different folks. If you're after that fat thumpy tone, then flats it is. I'd never string up a Hofner with anything but flats.

Powman · #18 12-05-2009, 03:07 PM

I like the sound of both, so I am saving my shekels for another bass to put some flats on.

Deep · #19 12-05-2009, 03:10 PM

I agree with alot being stated here. The only thing I can say though is that Bernard Edwards had a ton of definition and punch on his flatwound strung basses.

Hoover · #20 12-05-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassman316

I've been taking to flats a lot more lately, however. Actually, really since I read the "Confessions of a Flatwound Convert" thread.

Word. DO NOT underestimate the power of peer pressure...specifically, TB peer pressure. I used flats in the 1970s when I first started playing bass, and when I discovered roundwound strings it was like a lightbulb went off: oh, so this is what a bass can sound/feel like! And I never looked back, and never ever considered trying flatwounds again

...until I started reading TB.

Much as I remember hating flatwounds as a yute, now y'all have got my curiosity up. I'm tempted to try stringing up some of my basses w/ flats.

YOU GUYS ARE ENABLERS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassman316

BTW, doesn't this thread belong in the strings forum?

Oh yeah, This.