Changing from rounds thru body to flats top load but want same tension and action

[Bossman]

Hey guys I searched the other posts but couldn't find what I needed and figured some seasoned veterans could help me out.

I'm running D'addario EXL165SL 45-105 (super long b/c they are strung thru body). These strings have a total tension according to D'addario's website of 203.7. However my bass is only a 34" scale. I would assume my tensions is actually less than 203 but how much less??

I ask b/c I love my current tension and action but looking for a different sound so I'm going with a new set of flats and will probably top load b/c a lot say not to go through the body with flats. I want to minimize the difference in tension to keep the same action and "feel". I know flats will feel different but I don't want to change how I have to play them. Here the options I'm looking at but am just confused on what will have the least affect on this.

Chromes ECB81 45-100 top loaded (tension = 179.8)
Chromes ECB81SL 45-100 if I decide to go thru body.?. (tension 204.8)
Chromes ECB82 50-105 top load (tension = 206.9)
GHS Precision Flats 45-105 string thru b/c of length (tension = who know?)

I should also mention that I have begun playing a lot of bluegrass lately.

Thank you and any help is appreciated.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

The tension will be the same as a EXL165 set.

The main difference is going to be in the string flexibility. Flats & Rounds have completely different string construction and respond differently to touch.

If you have a set of flats with the same "tension" as a round wound string, the flats are going to feel stiffer due to their construction. Although there are some flatwounds which are super flexible.

You should probably look at the 40-100 Chromes if you want a similar "flexibility".

regardless of what you are going to do, you are going to need to do a new setup, string action / intonation / neck adjustment though it may not be much, you will need to do a little tweak...

[brendanbassist]

Stringing through the body or top loading won't affect tension, but as Slapinfunk said, flatwounds generally are stiffer, so maybe get a slightly lower gauge than your rounds.

[darkstorm]

Stringing thruy the body while it doesnt affect tension actually, does feel a little bit stiffer. Falts generally have greater tension then rounds. So top load will will generally help balance out feel.

Only string Id concider for flats is Rotosound or Dr. Dunno what gauge set would best equal feel etc of your current strings.

[PBnJBassist]

As others have stated - top-load or thru-body - the tension remains the same. However, I will point out that instead of focusing on total lbs. of tension, I recommend focusing on the lbs. of tension string-to-string in order to find/make a set that suits your preference, albeit balanced, arching, or otherwise.

For tension similar to your D'Addario XL set, I would also recommend (as Slap has) D'Addario Chromes ECB84 40-60-80-100 set. Other flatwounds with the same tension would be Fender Custom Lights 45-60-80-105 and GHS Precision 45-105 set.

I would stay clear of Rotosound 77s. I don't recommend them due to their E & A strings being brighter than their D & G strings - looking almost as if they package pressure rounds for their E & A and actual flatwounds for the D & G - very imbalanced in both look, feel, and tone. As always, for thru-body, stay away from La Bella flatwounds and if you're thinking Ernie Ball flats, you will essentially (though, not completely) get the same thing with D'Addario Chromes since both are chromed flatwounds.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

(what gauge Rotosound set do you feel looks like this?)

edited to add: never mind I see what your talking about... the D and G strings wrapping is seamless while the A E / B string you see there is a little gap in between the strings...

[PBnJBassist]

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

(what gauge Rotosound set do you feel looks like this?)

edited to add: never mind I see what your talking about... the D and G strings wrapping is seamless while the A E / B string you see there is a little gap in between the strings...

Yeah. It's odd how they manufacturer them that way. The D & G have that instant "thump" of flats gone (or at least going) dead while the E & A have a distinct piano-like "zing" to them that rounds have. They appear exactly like pressure/ground/half rounds - and I've had some experience with pressure rounds before - these seem just like them. Very disappointed in Rotosound and I definitely can't recommend them to anyone ever again.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Much flatter than a pressure wound, but I see what your saying... The outer winding is spaced out like the T-I flats basically...

Its their thang with these strings... I haven't played the Monels yet but plan to give them a try soon...

I know their upright bass set is a combination monel flatwound on the low-end and nylon tapewound on a nylon core on the high end... So maybe they designed them to be something similar?


On a side note, when I play on my P-Bass with Flats (LaBella 1954 Originals aka "Jamerson's" the G string just doesnt have the thump of the others... I adjust my playing to play higher up the neck so I play on the D string rather than the G...

Also when I play the standard 1 3 5 6 b7 6 5 3 blues line, I do it on two strings to keep the sound more consistent...

[Bossman]

Thanks guys this has helped a lot. I like a lot of bottom end and dont want anything that's real bright. I heard chromes start out bright but warm up and GHS start warm and stay warm. I play bluegrass, country and gospel and maybe some 70s rock off and on but mainly blugrass/gospel. Looks like I have it narrowed down to two picks. Can't find any tension specs for ghs though. Anyone want to weigh in?

Chromes ECB81 45-100
GHS Precision flats 45-105

[PBnJBassist]

Originally Posted by Bossman

Thanks guys this has helped a lot. I like a lot of bottom end and dont want anything that's real bright. I heard chromes start out bright but warm up and GHS start warm and stay warm. I play bluegrass, country and gospel and maybe some 70s rock off and on but mainly blugrass/gospel. Looks like I have it narrowed down to two picks. Can't find any tension specs for ghs though. Anyone want to weigh in?

Chromes ECB81 45-100
GHS Precision flats 45-105

GHS Precision flats: 45-105 set. I've had experience with both extensively, and the GHS set is extremely balanced in terms of tension & tone. Tension ranges from 41-43 lbs. average per string "feel-wise." Chromes are bright and keep a bit of their brightness even after they dull, but the thing that hinders me - a person that emphasizes balanced tension sets - is the almost bell curved tension of:

G = 45lbs
D = 52lbs
A = 43lbs
E = 38lbs

Average TOTAL tension is 44lbs, however, individual string-to-string tension is shifty from 7lbs from the G-D and 9lbs from the D-A and 5lbs to A-E with 14lbs from D-E (for those that play with octaves, and we all do). For some, this wouldn't make (much of) a difference - but for those in which it does - it's a hassle. Just my (lonely) opinion. No offense to others in the instance I did offend others with my odd explanation/rant.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by PBnJBassist

GHS Precision flats: 45-105 set. I've had experience with both extensively, and the GHS set is extremely balanced in terms of tension & tone. Tension ranges from 41-43 lbs. average per string "feel-wise." Chromes are bright and keep a bit of their brightness even after they dull, but the thing that hinders me - a person that emphasizes balanced tension sets - is the almost bell curved tension of:

G = 45lbs
D = 52lbs
A = 43lbs
E = 38lbs

Average TOTAL tension is 44lbs, however, individual string-to-string tension is shifty from 7lbs from the G-D and 9lbs from the D-A and 5lbs to A-E with 14lbs from D-E (for those that play with octaves, and we all do). For some, this wouldn't make (much of) a difference - but for those in which it does - it's a hassle. Just my (lonely) opinion. No offense to others in the instance I did offend others with my odd explanation/rant.

I heard the GHS set can be a little long. Should I string thru body with that set or top load? 34" scale.

[kraigo]

Chromes were too short for my Artcore's Tune-o-matic bridge. The silks on the end went a but over the nut. The tone was only a little worse than the Precision Flats. Then one of the Chromes' strings snapped for no really good reason. It wasn't terribly disappointed by the Chromes but they were a lesser string for my by every measure.

KO

[PBnJBassist]

Originally Posted by Bossman

I heard the GHS set can be a little long. Should I string thru body with that set or top load? 34" scale.

Either way would be fine. They set their gauge length at "Long Scale Plus" so it can accommodate 34-35" basses and the only drawback (if anyone can even call it that) is extra string for the winding peg. I personally never like to cut my strings and prefer a spiral wrap around my peg while others tend to lean towards 2-3 windings around a peg. Don't give the length too much thought and don't also be afraid of shooting it thru-the-body - unlike La Bella strings, GHS strings will be handle the break angles without snapping - they are very tough flatwounds.

[PBnJBassist]

Originally Posted by kraigo

Chromes were too short for my Artcore's Tune-o-matic bridge. The silks on the end went a but over the nut. The tone was only a little worse than the Precision Flats. Then one of the Chromes' strings snapped for no really good reason. It wasn't terribly disappointed by the Chromes but they were a lesser string for my by every measure.

KO

Tone is very subjective for each individual and will vary as such. In defense of both Chromes and GHS Flats, they are both different in terms of the sounds due to their core and material. GHS has stainless steel cross-windings with a contact core while Chromes has standard-windings with a hexagon core and chrome (chromium) material. GHS offers a Motown and "vintage" '50s-'70s era sound while Chromes have a more present mid-range and are flexible (genre-wise) from semi-vintage to modern-day tones. If anything, would it be fair to say that the tone comparison between the Chromes & GHS Flats were "different" rather than "a little worse?"

[Biggbass]

Considering you're playing more bluegrass lately you might even consider tape wounds.
I put a set of Tapes on my J bass and am liking them a lot. Our band is Americana with a bit of bluegrass/celtic influenced folk rock. The tapes are working very well for that.

[guroove]

I find both chromes and GHS flats to have too much tension compared to standard gauge rounds. The only flatwound string that I feel has the right "feel" compared to standard .45 - .105 rounds is light gauge LaBella flats (760FL).

[PBnJBassist]

Originally Posted by guroove

I find both chromes and GHS flats to have too much tension compared to standard gauge rounds. The only flatwound string that I feel has the right "feel" compared to standard .45 - .105 rounds is light gauge LaBella flats (760FL).

Which gauges of Chromes and GHS are you talking about? The Chromes ECB84 40-95 as well as GHS Precision 45-95 (slagged along with La Bella FX 39-96) are well known to coming as close to Thomastik Infeld aka. TI flats, which are the lowest tension flats produced on the market, and being relatively close to standard light gauge roundwound tensions. Also, these are flatwounds, about 95%+ of flats offered on the market are going to easily surpass standard (light) gauge roundwounds.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Biggbass

Considering you're playing more bluegrass lately you might even consider tape wounds.
I put a set of Tapes on my J bass and am liking them a lot. Our band is Americana with a bit of bluegrass/celtic influenced folk rock. The tapes are working very well for that.

Some friends want me to try tapes but im concerned how well they are picked u by passive electronics. My friends yamaha bass has fender tapes and the pickup has to at 3/4 volume to pick them up. I will say I never played his bass with std strings so it could be bad pups. I want a sound close to tapes so thought flats would be a good alternative. Our former bass player at church (passed away yrs ago) used tapes on an old fender pbass and sounded awesome. I just don't have the $ to try multiple sets right now. One day I would like to try them though.

[Biggbass]

They are picked up fine by passive pickups. The Tapes have a metal core so they respond to the magnets and electrical circuitry just fine. On My J bass they are every bit as loud and full as the flats on my P bass...just a bit less metallic sounding.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Biggbass

They are picked up fine by passive pickups. The Tapes have a metal core so they respond to the magnets and electrical circuitry just fine. On My J bass they are every bit as loud and full as the flats on my P bass...just a bit less metallic sounding.

Which tapewounds do you use?

I think I am going with GHS flats 45-105 but may consider some Daddario tapes. I want closer to an upright sound but not limit my sound to just that. I was thinking flats my be the way but don't know for sure.