Company that actually produces their own strings?

thetawaves · #1 07-07-2010, 04:10 AM

This thread is mainly out of curiosity. I came across a comment by a manufacturer mentioning that while they handmade all strings, a good proportion of "boutique" string companies merely outsourced their production.

My question is: are there known manufacturers who actually make their own strings as opposed to just buying them in and re-labelling them?

I'm pretty sure this would alter a number string-buying habits.

ridgeback · #2 07-07-2010, 04:16 AM

whats the question?? do you mean do companys like say warwick make their own strings or companys like rotosound who are one of the better known string makers?
i have used yamaha nickel 40s for years (when i could get them) they feel good and sound good for me..

thetawaves · #3 07-07-2010, 04:20 AM

Sorry, poorly worded post. Edited and fixed

was ideally after some input of what people know of manufacturers who actually make their strings instead of just buying them in. Or ideally, finding if you can get the bought-in strings for cheaper elsewhere without the big-brand labels.

dezspet · #4 07-07-2010, 04:23 AM

What I know that string specialists like Daddario, DR, GHS, Rotosound, etc. have their own production. I don't know actually if there are smaller "string specialists" who outsource their production.
In cases of instrument/gear producers like Lakland, Warwick, Yamaha, Mike Lull, Sadowsky and so on... I have the impression that maybe all of them have a contract with one of the upper list's producers, so they do not have the machinery or capacity for their own strings. Actually I don't know if it's true for Fender, but I assume they do the same. I know personally a few instrument producers, and for instance Lakland has a contract with GHS, but Lakland strings do differ because they have their own specification.

dezspet · #5 07-07-2010, 04:27 AM

Oh I know an exception: Fodera claims that they make their own strings, and there is no reason not to believe it!

One Bad Monkey · #6 07-07-2010, 04:31 AM

From my understanding, a relatively small number of string companies have the equipment to make their own strings and do the work of the bulk of the companies. Depending on the strings the company is making (for a client), they can vary wildly from what they make and sell themselves.

Dean Markley is another that has the equipment to make their own strings.

ridgeback · #7 07-07-2010, 04:32 AM

thats the 100000000 dollar question....i belive myself that companys use endorsement as a way of selling stuff at a much higher cost when its no real differance to the standard product, like for example a vic wooten set of strings has say a .105 to a .40 instead of the standard .105 to a .45 (its just an example i dont know what he uses)
some people buy strings/amps/guitars whatever so they can try to sound the same as their bass god..and its easy money for no effort to companys..
at a guess i would say most if not all guitar/bass makers outsource strings..

Aarix · #8 07-07-2010, 04:43 AM

I think Lakland strings are made by GHS. That doesn't bother me so much though, the strings sound great and are better balanced and sized for a 35" Lakland 5 string than anything I've been able to find off-the-shelf from GHS.

knuckle_head · #9 07-07-2010, 06:57 AM

Ya know.... even the big guys rely on the other big guys when pressed for inventory.

Scary but true.

megadan · #10 07-07-2010, 07:33 AM

From what I've heard, there are only 3 - 4 major, large scale string makers in the USA, plus a handful of small operations. Since there are dozens of string companies, most of the different strings you can buy are all wound on the same machines. But most brands claim that they're wound to their specifics. Does that make them the same strings, or not? That's up to you to decide, I guess.

Jim C · #11 07-07-2010, 07:44 AM

My analogy is do intrument manufacturers grow their own trees or make their own steel?
IMO string manufacturing is a very specialized process that requires elaborate machinery and a healthy investment that requires a huge daily production to make a profit.
Considering economies of scale, it makes sense that guitar builders would contract out to the specialty shops to build strings with specific materials just for them

What I want to know, is how does a guitar builder know what to spec if they don't make strings every day; perhaps based on samples?

ELS · #12 07-07-2010, 08:21 AM

A few years ago our company had a tag line " IF YOU ONLY NEW". I read post after post and can not help to think how true it is. If your ever in the Akron, Ohio area (I know, Why would you be?) stop by our factory,take a small tour, we might, just maybe let you make a string for us or......... someone else. Remember all string makers make good products either for their own brand or another. If not they wouldn't stay in business for very long. It is a very competitive market out there.

JAUQO III-X · #13 07-07-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELS

A few years ago our company had a tag line " IF YOU ONLY NEW". I read post after post and can not help to think how true it is. If your ever in the Akron, Ohio area (I know, Why would you be?) stop by our factory,take a small tour, we might, just maybe let you make a string for us or......... someone else.

Subculture13 · #14 07-07-2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Bad Monkey

Dean Markley is another that has the equipment to make their own strings.

And does in fact make them for other brands too.

JTE · #15 07-07-2010, 08:42 AM

OK, there aren't nearly as many string makers as there are string brands. And, like instruments, there's several levels of out-sourcing. At one point there were a few string makers in the US. That was D'Addario, GHS, LaBella, American Music String Company, Darco (owned by Martin), Sterlingworth, V.C. Squier (owned by Fender since the early '60s), Gibson, and another whose name I've forgotten, but was owned by Kaman Corporation (the owners of Ovation, Takamine, etc.). Possibly DR and/or R. Cocco were making their own strings as well.

I understand that Ernie Ball now makes their own strings but 20 years ago they were clearly D'Addario strings. Dean Markley strings were originally made by Sterlingworth, but my understanding is that Markley bought Sterlingworth. So there are more string makers than just ten years ago too (and this is only in the US- I don't know about international makers, but I do know the string Fender Japan shipped on my Sting bass were NOTHING at all like the string set FMIC claimed they shipped on it.)

Now, there's a level of outsourcing where the seller contracts with anyone to sell them stock strings with a custom label on them. That's common for store brands (e.g. Sam Ash strings, or MF's "Rouge" strings) and for many instrument makers. I know that Leo Fender used GHS strings for the Music Man instruments and the early G&L, even though the package had the instrument company's name on them. Stock GHS Precision Flats originally on the StingRay, then GHS Brite Flats or Boomers. The first G&L instruments that came into our store ca. 1982 all had Boomers on them. And I know that the early Peavey strings were GHS, and that Lakland's strings come from GHS too (and the nickle rounds are indistinguishable from GHS Boomers).

There's another level where a company specs a specific, different string than the maker's stock sets. It might be a different alloy, or a different gauge combination, or different ratios of wrap wire to core wire, etc.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter. D'Addario sells a ton of strings. They sell them direct to the retailers under the D'Addario name. And they sell them to other companies with that other firm's name on them. They sell 'em cheaper to ABC Guitar Company because ABC is buying them in huge quantities compared to even MF/GC. But finding out the source and buying the same string from D'Addario as from ABC probably won't result in any significant cost reduction for a retail consumer.

Just find the strings that sound right to you and give you an acceptable life, and buy those.

John

jumbodbassman · #16 07-07-2010, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezspet

Oh I know an exception: Fodera claims that they make their own strings, and there is no reason not to believe it!

they do. i have seen the winding machine at the shop. ans seen it running....

Distant Cousin · #17 07-07-2010, 08:44 AM

Overwater make their own strings. They're pretty damn good too! And cheap. Four string standard gauge etc. set is £12.99.

knuckle_head · #18 07-07-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim C

What I want to know, is how does a guitar builder know what to spec if they don't make strings every day; perhaps based on samples?

Precisely why I do both.... In each instance I could not buy or reliably be supplied with what I needed.

Jaco D · #19 07-07-2010, 10:39 AM

I dunno, I would think that it makes business sense for instrument makers to specialize in what they do best (that is, make musical instruments) and leave the string making and other segments of the business to different entities to specialize in what they do best (string makers, wood growers, parts makers, etc.). They (instrument makers) could have specialized "specs" for a set of strings, and string makers' manufacturing facilities should have the capability to accommodate such specialized batches. Otherwise, there's no harm in re-branding, etc.

I don' think there's anything proprietary in guitar strings as a product or a manufacturing process that would make instrument makers insist that these things be made in-house. At the end of the day, it's still a business and instrument makers are eventually accountable to their shareholders, all things being equal.

knuckle_head · #20 07-07-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco D

I dunno, I would think that it makes business sense for instrument makers to specialize in what they do best (that is, make musical instruments) and leave the string making and other segments of the business to different entities to specialize in what they do best (string makers, wood growers, parts makers, etc.). They (instrument makers) could have specialized "specs" for a set of strings, and string makers' manufacturing facilities should have the capability to accommodate such specialized batches. Otherwise, there's no harm in re-branding, etc.

I don' think there's anything proprietary in guitar strings as a product or a manufacturing process that would make instrument makers insist that these things be made in-house. At the end of the day, it's still a business and instrument makers are eventually accountable to their shareholders, all things being equal.

As I chose as a builder to do non-standard scale instruments I was in a different position. And as I got caught up in the race to the bottom I needed bigger strings. Designing strings was required.

Interestingly, it is indeed in the process. Process and materials is what gives each its characteristics and defines the brand if what is produced is of benefit. Tons of really good choices right now for most.

... the mother of invention.