Downtuning 5 string bass : Gb Bb Eb Ab Db

[jellecamps]

Hey,

Does anyone have any experience downtuning a 5string bass to Gb Bb Eb Ab Db ?

If so, does this work ?

More important, what type/brand of strings do you use without the strings getting to big in diameter, and without getting them floppy.

Any other recommandations/suggestions ..., please let know...

Grtz

Edit :
My bass is a 35" Dean Edge 5 (http://www.deanguitars.com/edge_5.htm)

[Saetia]

What scale length is your 5 string? This will need to be known to help come up with a diameter and tension that will suit your tuning better.

There are a few companies out there that make strings for these tunings but they always seem to be a thick diameter. Conklins F# string is .150

I'm sure someone will come along and give you much better information. But to start, when asking a question like this (since your profile isn't filled out) state what bass you are using and the scale length.

Peace

-Benny

[Jared92]

Ill tell you when you down tune that B sting. It gets LOW (but not as low as lil' jon =P ) That string will get extremly loose. so id be weary!

~Jared

[Saetia]

Originally Posted by Jared92

Ill tell you when you down tune that B sting. It gets LOW (but not as low as lil' jon =P ) That string will get extremly loose. so id be weary!

~Jared

That's why he's asking what string gauges he'll need for a Gb string not a tuned down B string.

If he's using a 35" scale bass, he can get away with a thinner gauge.

[lomo]

IME tuning below A will require such low string tension that it'll be ergonomically crappy to play, and no standard bass cab will be able to properly reproduce it. Haven't tried it on a knuckle quake mile-long bass, though. There's a reason virtually nobody does this IMO.

[jmac]

Originally Posted by Saetia

That's why he's asking what string gauges he'll need for a Gb string not a tuned down B string.

If he's using a 35" scale bass, he can get away with a thinner gauge.

The OP said

Does anyone have any experience downtuning a 5string bass to Gb Bb Eb Ab Db ?

By his own words he said "Downtuning" not "restringing."

But you bring up a good point. Rather than downtuning he should restring his bass. The only way I know how to compensate for a spaghetti string when detuning is with a larger diameter string.

I'm curious as to why someone would want to detune that much. I can't imagine Gb coming through FOH well. Not to mention having cabinets that can reproduce it. Good luck.

[Saetia]

Jellecamps, what kind of music do you play? Just wondering

lomo:

There are actually quite a few bands out there who tune this low to a step higher. There is a band from the Twin Cities that us those Ibanez 8 strings with the low F# string. Electric Wizard tunes to G# if I remember correctly. Ryknow from mudvayne tuned GCGCF on his Warwick Thumb 5 back in the day and played through an Ampeg fridge... it depends if you want extream fundamental or if you can get by with boosting more at the harmonics.

Peace

-Benny

[Saetia]

Originally Posted by jmac

The OP said

By his own words he said "Downtuning" not "restringing."

But you bring up a good point. Rather than downtuning he should restring his bass. The only way I know how to compensate for a spaghetti string when detuning is with a larger diameter string.

I'm curious as to why someone would want to detune that much. I can't imagine Gb coming through FOH well. Not to mention having cabinets that can reproduce it. Good luck.

I think the OP is a bit confused with the terminology, since he says down tuning and basically asks for the lightest gauge possible without much flop. The sad reality is that he's going to have to use a thicker string to get away with it.

[jellecamps]

Well yes, I'm a bit confused with the terminology, English isn't my mother tongue.

The thing is, the band I play in right now, a death/trash band has the guitars tuned down to Bb/A#.

I can downtune my 5string B E A D G to Bb Eb Ab Db Gb without any problem, but I find it hard to play cause the B string is so thick.

I was thinking about restringing the bass then to Gb Bb Eb Ab Db, with a thinner B string then it is now, so I can play fast on that one (and the rest of course too), and get even lower on the G-string when necessary.

Or restringing the bass with a thinner B-string without loosing the deep sound I have now ?

Again, I want to be able to play fast on my B-string, like on my other strings, cause this one will be used the most.
I have no experience on doing this, so I'm curious for suggestions/recommendations...

[Saetia]

Originally Posted by jellecamps

Well yes, I'm a bit confused with the terminology, English isn't my mother tongue

It's quite alright there are so many meanings for all of the terms us musicians use.

What kind of bass are you using currently?

I would say to stray away from the Gb tuning as you'll have to run even thicker strings then what you're having a problem with with your Bb.

What make and gauge of strings are you currently using that the Bb is to thick?

Peace

Benny

[kdlunde]

Warwick makes a low F# string (same as G flat); I can't speak for the sound or feel, I just know they make them. You could then add the BEAD and simply down-tune them 1/2 step, so then your strings would have pretty close to normal tension.

[NicJimBass]

I used to tune my 34" scale StingRay 5 and Bongo 5 Gb Cb Fb B E for a while. I used the lowest 4 strings of a normal 5 string set (.130, .100, .85, .60, I think) and added a .145 GHS bass boomer for the lowest string. I never had tension issues. I had mudiness issues below the 5th fret, but never tension issues!

[jellecamps]

The strings I use now are from D'Addario, I don't know what type, I lost the package

I'm not satisfied with them, they don't have a good sound.
Previous strings were delivered with the purchase of the bass.

According to someone else on this site they're GHS 5-5M-DYB 5-string Bass Strings, but I'm not sure about that.
I can't get any answer from Dean "Customer Service"

Are the GHS's good ones ???

[Billy Low]

I'd check with fellow tb'er Jauqo III-X. He's pretty much the premier voice when it comes to the "Super Low" end!

[knuckle_head]

Warwick's Black Labels are your best bet if you can find them - the .175 F# string is the better solution available at present for this tuning. Reasonable tension, full harmonic presence, and a might spendy as they are rare.

An alternative would be the SIT .195 with a slightly thicker B set above it. The SIT strings are bare core and will take some getting used to. My preference is tapered strings - but that's me.

I know you want to keep your strings thin, but tunings this low put you in a place where you cannot avoid going thicker to get the job done right. If you want skinnier strings you will need to get a much longer scale length instrument. If you want to do F# well with a .135 string you'll need a bass with a 53" scale length.

[Billy Low]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

I know you want to keep your strings thin, but tunings this low put you in a place where you cannot avoid going thicker to get the job done right. If you want skinnier strings you will need to get a much longer scale length instrument. If you want to do F# well with a .135 string you'll need a bass with a 53" scale length.

Not to pick an arguement, but this statement is not 100% correct. IIRC Jauqo III-X does have 34" scale instruments strung with .100 B strings and an .080 E strings...BRINGING PLENTY OF BOTTOM! I've played a few of these instruments for myself as well as seen the packaging of the strings as he changed sets, so I know this isn't speculation or hearsay as to the string gauges. This is one reason for me directing the OP to seek the advice of Jauqo III-X. Might as well seek info from an authority on the subject.

[greenboy]

I've built custom sets for low and fifths tunings that range from very light gauges to ones that are as heavy as the limited selection of strings for the lowest pitches will allow. It comes down to which tradeoffs a given player is the most comfortable with, really.

One thing I can say though: playing a 34" or 35" bass that's setup right for an optimized set of your choosing is not nearly as satisfying as playing the same tuning with a set made up for say a Dingwall with its 37-34" fanned scale length, or a Knuckle Quake with its 39.5". This supposes that all basses have good wood selection and stable, rigid necks that transfer vibrations well.

The longer scale length allows equivalent tensions with narrower strings and that translates into a more even overtone distribution, all other construction elements equivalent.

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by Billy Low

Not to pick an arguement, but this statement is not 100% correct. IIRC Jauqo III-X does have 34" scale instruments strung with .100 B strings and an .080 E strings...BRINGING PLENTY OF BOTTOM! I've played a few of these instruments for myself as well as seen the packaging of the strings as he changed sets, so I know this isn't speculation or hearsay as to the string gauges. This is one reason for me directing the OP to seek the advice of Jauqo III-X. Might as well seek info from an authority on the subject.

Jauqo does indeed have a solution and it works very well for him. His solution doesn't work for me as I don't nor expect to ever have his technique with very loose strings. Granted, the looser the string the more pronounced a fundamental will be, but there are down sides to tensions this low, not the least of which is pitch dive which I find intolerable.

Let's look at the tensions on the SIT subcontra set - .195 .165 .135 .100 - and extrapolate out and up for the next two strings - .080 and .060 - This would make an F# set run .165 F#, .135 B, .100 E, .080 A, .060 D. The tensions would be roughly as follows;

.060 - 44 pounds
.080 - 41 pounds
.100 - 34 pounds
.135 - 36 pounds
.165 - 28 pounds

The E string would sit better given its set mates at about .105 which would put its tension at roughly 38 pounds. The comparative drop in tension from B to F# is the trouble spot. Ideal tension would be in the 32 to 34 pound range which makes an ideal gauge based on the tension of the balance of the set roughly .175 to .185.

I base this on my own experience with my basses as well as others, and not mere numbers noodling - a shift in tension from string to string of no more than three pounds makes for the most comfortable and consistent feeling and sounding sets, and if string construction is consistent from very thick to standard gauges it will sonically sit best together.

[eyvindwa]

I tune to G C F Bb Eb, and use Elixir extra light strings for the highest four (C is .125). For the low G I have been using a SIT .165, and it has worked out allright, though it has been a little bit floppy on my 34" Warwick Thumb NT. The other strings have been great, though. I'm just about to try the Warwick .175 now for the G now (the bass is at a luthier to adjust the nut to fit), and I have high hopes for it

[knuckle_head]

I spent minimal time with the Warwick .175 last NAMM - my impression is that it would make a good G or G# string. Fill us in when you get your bass back.