Emulating JPJ- Flats or Rounds?

bencwalker · #1 07-10-2009, 05:02 PM

Lately, I've been listening to a lot of Zep and have really taken a liking to John Paul Jones' tone and playing style. I'm trying to emulate his signature "jazz bass" sound (I have a Squier CV Jazz)- I've done a lot of research and I've seen highly conflicting reports on whether he uses rounds or flats on his jazz. I remember seeing a picture of him from the 60's a while back and it looked like he had flats on his Jazz but who knows.

Just wondering if anyone could provide any insight. Thanks

walknbluez · #2 07-10-2009, 05:07 PM

In an interview with Bass Player magazine that question was asked:

Did you prefer flatwounds or roundwounds on your 4-string basses?

Everybody used to think I used flatwounds, but I stopped using flatwounds back in the session days because they just didn’t give me the sustain I wanted.

Interview here:

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/le...n/jan-08/33215

bencwalker · #3 07-10-2009, 05:14 PM

I'd seen that article, and I thought- oh, the mystery's solved.

Then I found the following picture:

Am I crazy or do those look like flats? This picture was from 1967, by the way.

KeithPas · #4 07-10-2009, 05:19 PM

Its hard to tell from that picture whether it is flats or rounds.

walknbluez · #5 07-10-2009, 05:21 PM

Hard for me to tell from the picture. Maybe really worn out roundwounds?

bencwalker · #6 07-10-2009, 05:34 PM

They look a lot like flats to me. I'm beginning to wonder if JPJ just has poor memory because there are a lot of tunes of Zeppelin 1-4 that sound a lot like flats. Anyone else have any input?

Jared Lash · #7 07-10-2009, 05:37 PM

Well, these days he uses rounds. And a 10 string bass. And a whammy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGHWxLruLvA

I loved JPJ's tone with Zeppelin, but it's interesting that while so many people try to capture what he did back in the day, the man himself has constantly changed, going from Jazz basses through a tube amp to Alembics through GK rigs to custom basses today.

Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting that old school tone (it still sounds great to me) just interesting to note how JPJ has always moved forward in terms of his sound.

He also looks a lot younger than Page and Plant these days and can obviously still bring it. I can't wait to hear his album with Dave Grohl and Josh Homme (and maybe Mike Patton), I can't imagine it being less than awesome.

bencwalker · #8 07-10-2009, 05:48 PM

Ah perhaps I wasn't being clear that I'm going for his "old school" sound, but that 10 string video is really sick. You're right, as JPJ has always moved forward and changed his sound with the invention of new (often crazy) instruments.

I too am excited for that "trifecta of awesome" as somebody on this forum put it.

But back on the subject of strings, anyone else have anything to add?

James Hart · #9 07-10-2009, 06:00 PM

I don't know what he used... but I can best cop his early tone on a Jazz with flats

bencwalker · #10 07-10-2009, 06:08 PM

Thanks James- yeah, after watching this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbA_jQ28HmI
I'd have to agree that flats match his early tone best. Thanks to all who contributed!

Turock · #11 07-10-2009, 06:09 PM

I suspect that in Zep's early days, flats were just about all that was available.

Jared Lash · #12 07-10-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencwalker

Ah perhaps I wasn't being clear that I'm going for his "old school" sound, but that 10 string video is really sick. You're right, as JPJ has always moved forward and changed his sound with the invention of new (often crazy) instruments.

I too am excited for that "trifecta of awesome" as somebody on this forum put it.

But back on the subject of strings, anyone else have anything to add?

Yeah, didn't mean to derail your thread there. Anyway, I get a pretty similar tone from my "Jazz" bass (Stambaugh with an Audere pre and Nordy Fat Stacks) and TI Jazz Flats. It sounds super old school through a tube amp (at least the two times I"ve tried it), but less so through my SS rigs. LaBellas might get you there too, but the TI Jazz Flats are a nice middle ground.

RCCollins · #13 07-10-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Yeah, didn't mean to derail your thread there. Anyway, I get a pretty similar tone from my "Jazz" bass (Stambaugh with an Audere pre and Nordy Fat Stacks) and TI Jazz Flats. It sounds super old school through a tube amp (at least the two times I"ve tried it), but less so through my SS rigs. LaBellas might get you there too, but the TI Jazz Flats are a nice middle ground.

yeah, the TIs are considerably brighter and have more sustain than the LaBellas. I think they're a great pick for nailing the "JPJ sound"

bencwalker · #14 07-10-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigO

Yeah, didn't mean to derail your thread there. Anyway, I get a pretty similar tone from my "Jazz" bass (Stambaugh with an Audere pre and Nordy Fat Stacks) and TI Jazz Flats. It sounds super old school through a tube amp (at least the two times I"ve tried it), but less so through my SS rigs. LaBellas might get you there too, but the TI Jazz Flats are a nice middle ground.

Not a problem, TheBigO, I appreciated the contribution a ton. I'm stuck with a set of Roto Flats right now, but I think I'll try and get my hands on a set of LaBellas soon (TI's are a bit pricey for me

). Thanks for the strings reccomendations!

markdavid · #15 07-11-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencwalker

Thanks James- yeah, after watching this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbA_jQ28HmI
I'd have to agree that flats match his early tone best. Thanks to all who contributed!

I agree with both of you , regardless of what strings he used , using flats is the easiest way to get his early led zep tone

RCCollins · #16 07-11-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencwalker

Not a problem, TheBigO, I appreciated the contribution a ton. I'm stuck with a set of Roto Flats right now, but I think I'll try and get my hands on a set of LaBellas soon (TI's are a bit pricey for me

). Thanks for the strings reccomendations!

yeah rotos would be the worst possible flats if you're going for a JPJ sound

i dunno about labellas though, they really lack sustain (which is neither good nor bad - sometimes that's exactly what you want, but it's not ideal in this case). maybe you should look into d'addario chromes if the TIs seem too pricey?

I would try TIs, because they last absurdly long, and if you decide you don't like them you can re-sell them in the TB classifieds... yep, people pay for used flats. I bet you lose less than 15 bucks on the experiment

bencwalker · #17 07-11-2009, 06:41 PM

Alright, I'll have to check my local shop for some TI Flats. The supposed lack of sustain that LaBellas have doesn't sound ideal for copping JPJ. If they don't have any TI's I'll be sure to try out the chromes as I've heard nothing but great things about 'em.

Edit: RCCollins, you mentioned that rotos are the worst possible flats for emulating JPJ- just out of curiosity, why is that? Just wondering. Thanks

groovenut57 · #18 07-11-2009, 09:59 PM

The question of flats vs. rounds aside, we should also keep in mind JPJ's technique, combined with his choice of gear, has a great bearing on the overall tonal quality.

Watching some of these old Zeppelin video clips, I can't help noticing JPJ is one of those people who play up closer to the neck than most (as seen in the photo above posted by bencwalker) - almost at the end of the fingerboard, which results in fuller and mellower sound overall.

bencwalker · #19 07-11-2009, 10:19 PM

Yeah good point groovenut, playing up by the neck gives it that nice thick mellow sound. Where you play the strings makes an enormous difference in how you sound. And in the way of gear, was he running the Acoustic 360's back in the day or was he using something else? And aside from his bass pedals, he wasn't running any "effect" specific pedals was he?