F# string tension/playability?

[20Hz]

Hi there,

newb to the forum. I tried searching on my title but neither the forums search nor google search allows searches on words less than 3 characters, apparently. I did read some similar things in other threads, hope this topic hasn't been done to death...

So I play pretty aggressive finger style (pull on the strings hard) and with a pick, and do not like floppy strings. For some magical reason my hot-rodded 20 year old Peavy Fury (don't laugh) restrung BEAD has a great B that I can hammer on. I'm considering having a custom built, and am tossing around the idea of F#BEAD tuning. I'm under the impression that an F# is going to be floppy for sure though. Those of you who play a bass that has one, what's been your experience? I use the B all the time and would love to have some extension below it, but not if all I'm going to get is some rumbling or have to be gentle with the string to keep it from hitting the pickup, rattling etc. I realize there's the whole question of being able to reproduce the lower tones (I've done some searching) but I'll deal with that later. Right now I'm trying to figure it out from a playability stand point.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

[Asa Samuel]

Try posting in the strings section

[Darkstrike]

Warwicks, Vampyer - Dark Lord, is tuned F# B E A as standard so a heavy enough string should be fine.

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by Bass Junkie

Try posting in the strings section

well...I assume that the bass (construction/materials etc) has something to do with the playability/tension of the string. In fact I thought the bass was much more important (like to the tune of 80% of the equation) than the string itself. No? I've played lots of 5 strings with wildly differing string tension on the B, and I can't imagine that is only due to the string itself....

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

well...I assume that the bass (construction/materials etc) has something to do with the playability/tension of the string. In fact I thought the bass was much more important (like to the tune of 80% of the equation) than the string itself. No? I've played lots of 5 strings with wildly differing string tension on the B, and I can't imagine that is only due to the string itself....

Three things determine string tension:

1) The gauge of the string
2) The pitch to which the string is tuned
3) The scale of the instrument (nut to saddle distance)

[de1orean]

Welcome, Chris!

You should check these guys out: http://www.knuckleguitarworks.com/1.html

best of luck in your quest.

*edit*

This page talks some about the physics: http://www.knuckleguitarworks.com/size.html

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by de1orean

You should check these guys out: http://www.knuckleguitarworks.com/1.html

Ya beat me to it!

[Taylor Livingston]

I couldn't find any mention of what the actual scale they use is, only that it's "extra long". I wish they would just give a measurement!

20hz, if you just want the feel of the string to be tight, you could use avery heavy gauge string for the F#. A heavier gauge might make the lowest notes so thick as to be indistinguashable from each other, though, so you could either do some really long scale, like maybe 38"-40", or a fanned scale, so the lowest strings are this long, but the higher strings are regular length.

[Hoover]

I'd swear one of those pages on the Knuckle Guitar Works site specifically mentions a scale length of 39".

edit: My bad, it was a thread here on TB where some Quake owners listed the scale length. Knuckle website is coyly noncommital.

[EADG mx]

You could try a light C# tuned up

[20Hz]

how about some replies from folks who actually play a bass with the F#?

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by ggunn

Three things determine string tension:

1) The gauge of the string
2) The pitch to which the string is tuned
3) The scale of the instrument (nut to saddle distance)

you know I don't want to pick a fight in my first post but this is the kind of reply I don't need. Do you play a bass with an F#? On what do you base your statement that these are the only three things that determine string tension? Do you really think that things such as construction of the instrument and say...neck materials make no difference?

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

you know I don't want to pick a fight in my first post but this is the kind of reply I don't need. Do you play a bass with an F#? On what do you base your statement that these are the only three things that determine string tension? Do you really think that things such as construction of the instrument and say...neck materials make no difference?

Yes, absolutely. It's simple physics; the tension in a string depends on those three variables and nothing else. It doesn't, for example, have anything to do with how much extra string there is between the bridge saddle and the rivet or between the nut and the tuning peg, despite what many seem to think.

That's not to say that when you pull on a string there may be more "give" on one bass than another if the neck flexes (there's your neck materials and construction variable), but string tension itself is a pretty simple mechanism.

Whether I play a bass with an F# is irrelevant.

[knuckle_head]

I'd suggest that the Warwick Black Label .175 string is decent though still a little light. The C# string that Conklin sells works well for F# or E.

I'll fix the scale length omission on my site.



On my basses I am rather fond of .185 or so, but I have a few extra inches that help things along some.

EDIT; 20Hz - ggunn is correct. Tension is measured over the playing length of any string on any bass given specific mass, and the factors he stipulates to do indeed determine the tension purely.

Construction, materials and playing style will dictate what it feels like and are WAY subjective.

[Basshole]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

how about some replies from folks who actually play a bass with the F#?

What if some of those guys even posted samples, huh?

Wait...we did.

Search is your friend. Good luck, young Mr. Holmes.

[Steelpulz]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

how about some replies from folks who actually play a bass with the F#?

I play a Conklin 7-string tuned F#-C. I use S.I.T. strings. The F# is .165 guage. It is not floppy.

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by Basshole

What if some of those guys even posted samples, huh?

Wait...we did.

Search is your friend. Good luck, young Mr. Holmes.

samples of the tension/playability of their strings??

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by Steelpulz

I play a Conklin 7-string tuned F#-C. I use S.I.T. strings. The F# is .165 guage. It is not floppy.

good to hear thanks man

[Bass Thunder]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

how about some replies from folks who actually play a bass with the F#?

I like the Warwick Dark Lords on my MTD with 35" scale. The gauge is .175 F#, and .135 B. They probably won't work on 34" because of the winding may reach into the tuning peg.

They are hard to get, but you can try Mike's Chop Shop on ebay, or special order from your local real music store. Order from Dana B Goods.

I've tried the SIT .165 F# and like the Warwicks better.

If you plan to experiment with extra heavy string gauges you definitely need to keep two different nuts handy - IMHO.

PS - The Dark Lord only comes as a 4-string set, so you may need to add a 5th string as I do, or not.

[Basshole]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

samples of the tension/playability of their strings??

In a manner of speaking yes, I hope they might help answer those questions.

I recall posting a couple of examples - one of runs across strings, as well as real world song use of the F#...so, indeed, provided you can find the posts, they may be of some help to you in answering those questions with real sonic examples.