Flats for a trio?

[pejsaboy]

I've really been considering grabbing a pack of flatwound strings when I wear out my current set of rounds. I just finished reading the first page of Sundogue's post about being a convert to the flatwound string, and it all really clicked and makes the flats sound ever the better choice for what I'm after. I did, however, notice a couple of posts where people mentioned that they would probably use rounds in a three-piece where they had more sonic space to fill. I'm currently in a three-piece, bluesy-rock band so I have the option to fill a fair amount of space. We've been considering adding a fourth member to share the vocal load and include a keyboard, but it isn't something we're actively pursuing at the moment.

I'm after some opinions on using flats in a trio. I don't want to leave a lot of empty space by dumping the rounds, but I also feel in a way that the rounds give me more high-end than I really want. As much as I don't like doing it, I've made it standard practice that I always roll off the tone knob on my bass to kill string noise (like position changes) and some of the overtones. I like the growl that I get when I open up the tone knob, but the other sounds that come with it don't appeal to me at all. Does it sound like flats might be the right choice for me?

If it makes any difference, I play a passive Dean 4-string tuned BEAD with soapbar pups.

[MK1]

Go with flats. I play in a 3 piece and I use flats, not to mention I use them on a 4 string, 1 pickup, short scale. I don't have any trouble filling in space. I also roll my tone knob off about half way. Flats aren't completely dead, they still have some nice top end.

[brendanbassist]

"to kill string noise (like position changes) and some of the overtones. I like the growl that I get when I open up the tone knob, but the other sounds that come with it don't appeal to me at all."

Thats pretty much how I am too. Still experimenting with EQ, compression, and strings...

[odin70]

I have switched to Roto77 and im never going to look back. Go for it.

[Muaguana]

I'm in two trios, one of which I switch off between a 5-string with rounds and a 4-string fretless with flats. To me it's dependent on the song being played; some tunes work well with rounds, some sound great with flats. Both rounds and flats fill out different areas of sonic space, and you have to use your ear to gauge what space needs to be filled for your band's music.

Since I don't know the music you play, don't know what your playing style is, nor your personal preferences in regards to timbre, I can only suggest trying out flats sometime and deciding for yourself whether they'll work. What might help is if you have some recording equipment, you can record yourself playing a song with your band now, and record it again when you get the flats on, then compare the two tracks and see which fits the music better. Also, if/when you get flats, ask your bandmates' opinions on the sound.

[Muckaluck]

I used Tomastik Flatwounds on a Warwick streamer in a hair metal 3 piece a few years back. I had no problems whatsoever filling my sonic space. I remember bringing in a bass at one point with zingy roundwounds and it felt like the whole bottom had dropped out of the band.

When you talk about the bass you play and what you're looking for it sounds to me like you'd enjoy a 5 string set of D'addario chromes. You could just throw away the G string.

[Groover]

I used Labella 760FM mostly in the Trio I played. I then tried Sadowsky flats for a little while, then various rounds. All worked, but looking back... the Labella's suited the band the best - similar genre as yours.

Precision Bass.

[shrimpflea]

[quote=Groover;9412467]I used Labella 760FM mostly in the Trio I played. I then tried Sadowsky flats for a little while, then various rounds. All worked, but looking back... the Labella's suited the band the best - similar genre as yours.

Precision Bass.[

This is what I use...Labella flats 49-109 P Bass....trio, bluesy rock...they take up a lot of sonic space.

[guroove]

Another vote for the flats, in particular the LaBellas. There isn't really as huge of a difference in sound between flats and rounds as people make it out to seem. I like the 760FS personally, and they have very close tension to the .105 - .045 rounds that I was used to.

[lmfreeman9]

I use flats, almost always. The exception is in a 3 piece rock band, where I do use rounds to fill more space. I think it depends if you play busier lines, (I don't) you can definitely use flats. But I would choose some with good highs like TI's or Chromes.

[emblymouse]

Ken Smith Slicks are a real good compromise if you want to take it one step at a time, they are a ground round. Much more fudge than any round but still can snap for punctuation. They feel very close to a flat once broken in. Cheap too! Nice on my Jazz in a 3 pc., I've got them on one of my 5 stringers now too.

[pejsaboy]

Originally Posted by lmfreeman9

I use flats, almost always. The exception is in a 3 piece rock band, where I do use rounds to fill more space. I think it depends if you play busier lines, (I don't) you can definitely use flats. But I would choose some with good highs like TI's or Chromes.

Cool, I was thinking of the Chromes at this point. From the reading I've been doing here in the strings forum, it seems like the favored flats are the TI's, Chromes, and LaBellas. Right now I'm playing the pink 4-string EB Slinkies*, and I like the tension overall. Will the Chromes have a similar tension? I could handle slightly less, but I don't think I would want much more with the exception of the B string. I've got a .125 on the B, and was planning to go to a .130 with my next pack because the .125 feels a bit looser than the other 3 strings. Is this the right train of thought, or will I just be adding thickness?

*I had the bass setup to tune B shortly after putting a new set on, so the strings were new enough (and long enough) to reuse and just add a B string.

[68Goldfish]

I've been using chromes on a rick for a few months in a 3 piece blues rock band. I think they work perfectly. So much more definition, especially with busy lines. Plus I don't spend the entire practice screwing around with my amp trying to get just the right amount of sizzle out of my rounds. I think they make the band sound better. It just locks the low end down. I know, cheesy descriptions but I just can't think of a better way of putting it.

[Arvin]

I play in a classic rock trio, and my P/J with Chromes (flats) is absolutely perfect for all that stuff. I highly recommend flats in that kind of context. When I drag out a different bass, the other guys in the band ask me to go back to the P/J. Unless, of course, the other bass is my fretless.

[Sundogue]

I am somewhat amazed my "convert" thread is still going strong. Lots of contributions to that dialog on flats.

pejsaboy...rounds are going to give you sizzle and more brightness, but that doesn't translate into "filling in" anything really, in a three piece band or otherwise. What rounds give you is that harmonic content and overtones that are already buried under the guitar anyway. So what is to be gained by using rounds in that context?

It is really a personal choice for the kind of sound you want. Personally I have gone back and forth between flats and rounds just to see what I'm missing and I've found that in playing flats I'm not missing a thing. I can fill up the sonic space with flats better than with rounds...IMO.

The reason? Flats give me more definition in the deep bottom than rounds and all the rounds give me is highs the guitar already covers.

Keep in mind that my opinion is coming from using a pick mostly on a 5 string strung with D'Addario Chromes. To me it's total Bass in your face along with a solid kick in the chest. Nothing is missing at all.

That may not be your tonal goal or it may not be achieved if you play more fingerstyle or you use some other brand of flats. There is so much that goes into the sound...from your strings, to technique, your bass and rig and how you EQ it, that it is difficult to say what a string change alone will do for you.

All you can really do is try it and see how it goes. Just a word of advice. If you've been a roundwound player you really need to give flats a chance in a gig environment. Flats shine where it counts...on stage with the band. By yourself you may feel strongly about the lack of zingy brightness you are accustomed to. Also, give the Chromes a try if you've been stuck in roundworld for too long. The low B on them has great definition.

[pejsaboy]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

To me it's total Bass in your face along with a solid kick in the chest. Nothing is missing at all.

That's what I'm really after. I don't play with a pick, mostly because I haven't taken the time to get use to it vs. my fingers, but eventually I'd like to be equally adept with one. It would seem that we have a similar taste in our desired tone and playing style. I'm not looking to play "lead bass" or slap out crazy solos, I just want to thump some ribs and hold up the band.

I definitely think I'll go with the Chromes as my first set of flats based on everything I've been reading. I appreciate your input here, Sundogue!

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by pejsaboy

That's what I'm really after. I don't play with a pick, mostly because I haven't taken the time to get use to it vs. my fingers, but eventually I'd like to be equally adept with one. It would seem that we have a similar taste in our desired tone and playing style. I'm not looking to play "lead bass" or slap out crazy solos, I just want to thump some ribs and hold up the band.

I definitely think I'll go with the Chromes as my first set of flats based on everything I've been reading. I appreciate your input here, Sundogue!

You don't really have to play with a pick. I also play with fingers and for most of the past thirty years I seldom used a pick. Wrist/Elbow issues from my "other" job forced a change in my playing style. You can EQ in a harder edge to replace what a pick does, so either technique is equally up to the task.

I purposely switched to flats because I wanted to be in more of a support role and to better define the rhythm section and give it more of a unified sound. Being in a classic rock band I just wanted the rhythm section to act more akin to a WWII artillery barrage. Hit them with all we got and make them feel the power of it, allowing the melody to ride on top like a General riding in to survey the damage.

Can roundwounds do that? Sure, but it's my experience that with flats not having the open top end sizzle of rounds, they are better suited to that purpose (and not in a way that simply rolling off the treble with rounds accounts for). Rounds are more definitely the more multi-purpose string but given the singular task of assaulting the human skeletal/nervous system flats just hammer it and make people move without thought.

Nobody dances and bops their head to a bass solo (wonderful as they can be), but drive home an AC/DC rhythm and everyone is moving to the music...consciously or not. And I've noticed it with even the blue hairs at a wedding that would rather listen to Conway Twitty or polkas.

I like the Chromes because they have more biting mid character with plenty of defining upper mids to carve their own sonic space in any genre. While not suited to perhaps Rush or Yes style bass, I can add enough grind and top end to my rig where many players even assume I'm using rounds.

Having said that, it is surely an acquired taste (especially for a former roundwound player) and it really takes a few gigs to understand how to EQ them properly. Your initial feeling will be they are missing something, but after you get used to them you'll realize that what they miss up on top they more than make up for in the bottom and lower mids. The kind that kicks you in the guts. Flats (and Chromes in particular) remind me of the classic P-Bass strung with flats, played with a pick through an Ampeg SVT 810 rig...only without needing the P-Bass or the Ampeg.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[pejsaboy]

You're really making it tough to continue wearing out my round slinkies here... of course a set of chromes would be cheaper than a used P bass that I've been gassing for lately

[Already In Use]

I have flats on a PJ bass. Just me, keyboards and a guitar. For me the sound is perfect. Deep and smooth. The others really like the tone. We're a bunch of old f88kers..just an FYI.

[walknbluez]

I had the same question when I was playing in my trio and I decided to try and it out and was really glad I did. I use Chromes and I had no problem filling the sonic space when needed.