Flatwounds: Chromes vs Black Nylon

[jackajesusfreak]

Anybody tried both of these and can educate me on the difference and the pros and cons?

[Billnc]

I used black nylons for years, many years, and only bought one set. Very upright like. They sounded great on fretted jazz bass in a blues band and got me a lot of attention when rounds were all the rage. A bit thuddy for my present tastes. Chromes are a bit brighter and sit well in the mix. My tapes were Rotosound. Pro with the tapes the strings seem to maintain the same sound throughout their life. One finally had the core break and I switched strings. Con with the tapes thuddy (great URB sound though). Chromes are great, but I prefer two other brands. DR and TIJF.

[mongo2]

I have Chromes and Labella nylon tapes (my favorite tapewounds) on different basses and I've tried them on the same basses (along with several other flats and tapes).

Nylon tapewounds definitely sound "darker" (pun intended), are more mellow sounding, and have bit less tension at pitch than the Chromes. The Labellas have a bit more clarity than other tapes (Fender and Rotos) I've tried and have a smoother feel.

Be aware that the tapes will isolate your body from the ground of the instrument and therefore the shielding your body provides when contacting metal strings will be eliminated letting more noise into your system even when touching the strings if your bass tends towards noise when you remove your hands from metal strings.

[jackajesusfreak]

Originally Posted by Billnc

I used black nylons for years, many years, and only bought one set. Very upright like. They sounded great on fretted jazz bass in a blues band and got me a lot of attention when rounds were all the rage. A bit thuddy for my present tastes. Chromes are a bit brighter and sit well in the mix. My tapes were Rotosound. Pro with the tapes the strings seem to maintain the same sound throughout their life. One finally had the core break and I switched strings. Con with the tapes thuddy (great URB sound though). Chromes are great, but I prefer two other brands. DR and TIJF.

What brand is the TIJF billnc?

[Billnc]

Thomstik Infeld Jazz Flats. They seem to have a following, much like chromes and Labella flats. The sound is uprightish also, so if it's the sound your going for give them a try. Expensive though. I forgot about grounding issues with tape strings. If I remember correctly I solved the probelm with active electronics. But don't quote me!

[jackajesusfreak]

Originally Posted by Billnc

Thomstik Infeld Jazz Flats. They seem to have a following, much like chromes and Labella flats. The sound is uprightish also, so if it's the sound your going for give them a try. Expensive though. I forgot about grounding issues with tape strings. If I remember correctly I solved the probelm with active electronics. But don't quote me!

Bill,
Trying to get the upright bass sound, with just a 'tinge' of sustain, with my viola bass guitars. Experimenting and have D'Addario chrome flats on there now. The D'Addario may be my best choice? What do you think?
Jack

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

Bill,
Trying to get the upright bass sound, with just a 'tinge' of sustain, with my viola bass guitars. Experimenting and have D'Addario chrome flats on there now. The D'Addario may be my best choice? What do you think?
Jack

sounds to me like the thomastiks would work great - as long as you don't mind the low tension

[seanm]

I love tapewounds on my bass. Unfortunately, the lack of grounding doesn't allow me to use them live I like things quiet. If you are used to the noise of a strat through multiple pedals, then tapes will be fine.

Tapewounds and chromes are basically opposites in the flats world. Chromes are much brighter with more sustain than the tapes.

As to tension.... the tapes *feel* like they have lower tension then chromes.... but my truss rod says otherwise. The tapes I used where the Rotosounds.

[jasper383]

Most tapewound strings are not flats; they are a very light gauge roundwound wrapped in plastic.

Many tapewounds have a nice high mid character, and are not thuddy. Try Rotosound Tapes, or La Bella tapes--not thuddy at all, and to my ears, not like flats at all.

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

Bill,
Trying to get the upright bass sound, with just a 'tinge' of sustain, with my viola bass guitars. Experimenting and have D'Addario chrome flats on there now. The D'Addario may be my best choice?

IME with my Viola and Chromes vs Labella Tapewounds, I had better luck getting a more upright-ish sound with the tapes.

[Langenschwert]

I like both the LaBella tapewound and Thomastiks. I've got labella's on my fretless and thoms on my fretted. I find that the nylons have a much more uprightish sound, and let more of the wood shine through. The steel flats still have a bit of a metallic sheen in the sound, though it's quite subtle. I'm thinking of putting labella's on the fretted too, I like them that much.

-Mark

[jackajesusfreak]

Okay, I'm getting a lot of info and since I'm a bass rookie, I need to digest and understand all of this. Questions:
1. What is grounding and why is it a problem with nylon tapes?
2. What is the difference, beyond the gauge of the string, between light, medium, and heavy strings. I'm not talking length, but the guage. Is there a difference in sound? Would one size give a more upright bass sound than the other?
3. A siginificant in price between the D'Addario and Rotosounds vs the La Bella and Thomas Stiks. Is that because the La Bella and Thomas last longer and have a better sound?

Thanks everyone!
Jack

[Billnc]

1. If there is a hum coming from your bass and it goes away when you touch the strings when you use steel strings, it will not go away with nylon strings. In the studio I alligator clipped a ring on my right hand to the bridge to record with the tape strings.
2. Even with different gauges the string tension can vary a bit. We are all probably after different aspects of the upright sound. I've gotten it with all the strings mentioned! I liked chromes on a hollowbody, tapes on a Jazz. Thomastick with their lower tension offer qualities I find valid for upright type sounds on fretless, they sure aren't Jaco or Pino sounding.
3. Unless you hate a pack of strings you buy, all flats or tapes last years.

I think you'll wind up doing like the rest of us, the expensive bass string experiment!

[lunarpollen]

Here's a recording from last year, just a rough live demo kinda thing recorded with my Zoom H2. My friend Justin played bass, a crappy Squier P-Bass (I know there are some great Squiers out there, but this is not one of them) with LaBella nylon tapewounds, through my LMII and Markbass 1x15 + Bergantino 2x10. No effects on the bass. I know my guitar playing is poo, but it was just for demo purposes.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/20670202-7...hy-Pretty-song

[jackajesusfreak]

Originally Posted by Billnc

1. If there is a hum coming from your bass and it goes away when you touch the strings when you use steel strings, it will not go away with nylon strings. In the studio I alligator clipped a ring on my right hand to the bridge to record with the tape strings.
2. Even with different gauges the string tension can vary a bit. We are all probably after different aspects of the upright sound. I've gotten it with all the strings mentioned! I liked chromes on a hollowbody, tapes on a Jazz. Thomastick with their lower tension offer qualities I find valid for upright type sounds on fretless, they sure aren't Jaco or Pino sounding.
3. Unless you hate a pack of strings you buy, all flats or tapes last years.

I think you'll wind up doing like the rest of us, the expensive bass string experiment!

So it seems to be that nylons I should stay away from for the hum reason.
What are the pros and cons of less tension you mentioned with the Thomas?

Sounds to me like the Thomas might be worth a look.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

So it seems to be that nylons I should stay away from for the hum reason.
What are the pros and cons of less tension you mentioned with the Thomas?

Sounds to me like the Thomas might be worth a look.

No one who is very famous (I might be wrong) that I know of uses Thomastiks, so I can't describe the sound! Cop out I know. You are dealing with two very different feels. Maybe the Thomastiks decay, when plucked more like an upright string, to my ear. While you can get the upright sound (easily too) I think the Chromes decay (bad word, maybe I should just say as the note develops) more like standard electric bass. A symphony player who plays electric described TI's as more symphonic, whatever that means.

If the viola bass has a short scale you might want to take tension into consideration. Price too, TI's are steep.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by seanm

I love tapewounds on my bass. Unfortunately, the lack of grounding doesn't allow me to use them live I like things quiet. If you are used to the noise of a strat through multiple pedals, then tapes will be fine.

Tapewounds and chromes are basically opposites in the flats world. Chromes are much brighter with more sustain than the tapes.

As to tension.... the tapes *feel* like they have lower tension then chromes.... but my truss rod says otherwise. The tapes I used where the Rotosounds.

wouldn't this be a problem only if teh bass itself has a problem with grounding, a problem that can be easily corrected?

or am I lost?

I'm not the greatest expert, but I've had guitars/basses that would only be quiet if I had my hands on the strings. Shielding was off in all. I quietened basses and guitars just by adding shielding.

[seanm]

Originally Posted by mcnach

wouldn't this be a problem only if teh bass itself has a problem with grounding, a problem that can be easily corrected?

or am I lost?

I'm not the greatest expert, but I've had guitars/basses that would only be quiet if I had my hands on the strings. Shielding was off in all. I quietened basses and guitars just by adding shielding.

Shielding helps, but doesn't always solve the problem, especially with flacky wiring in the building.

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by mcnach

wouldn't this be a problem only if teh bass itself has a problem with grounding, a problem that can be easily corrected?

or am I lost?

I'm not the greatest expert, but I've had guitars/basses that would only be quiet if I had my hands on the strings. Shielding was off in all. I quietened basses and guitars just by adding shielding.

The easiest way I found to eliminate the hum issue with tapewounds is to use Bartolini or EMG pickups.

[Aussie Mark]

Originally Posted by Billnc

No one who is very famous (I might be wrong) that I know of uses Thomastiks

Carol Kaye ....

Carol Kaye uses the Thomastik Jazz flats for Bass and Thomastik Bebop Jazz Guitar strings. "All the best!" Thomastik-Infeld endorsing artist, Carol Kaye, was one of the core group of anonymous studio musicians who lent her unique styles of studio Guitar and Electric Bass playing to many of the hits recorded by such popular artists like the Beach Boys, Ray Charles, The Righteous Bros., Johnny Mathis, Nancy Sinatra, Sam Cooke, Glen Campbell, Lou Rawls, Jan & Dean, Henry Mancini, The Lettermen, Paul Revere & Raiders, Monkees, Buckinghams, April & Nino, Sonny & Cher, Chris Montez, Andy Williams, Quincy Jones, Joe Cocker, Ike & Tina Turner, Mel Torme, Bobby Darin, Frank Zappa, Wayne Newton, Herb Alpert, O.C. Smith, Don Ho, Al Martino, and a few Motown (LA).

Numerous movie and TV credits including MASH, Mission Impossible, Brady Bunch, Addams Family, Cannon, McCloud, Room 222, 1st Bill Cosby, Ironside, Kojak, Hawaii 5-O, Wonder Woman, Soap;Thomas Crown Affair, Sweet Charity, Airport, In The Heat Of The Night, Plaza Suite, The New Centurions, Pawnbroker, Guess Who's Coming To Dinner, Change Of Habit, Le Mans, Walk Don't Run to name a few. Her inimitable style has made her a legend in the brief history of the commercial recording industry, over 10,000 sessions!