Help - I've got a floppy B-string...!

[mytilini]

Evening everyone. I'm new to TalkBass, but would really like some help on a 5-string I've just bought. I've been a 4-string player for too long and needed to get a 5-string for my band's new songs. So, bought a Bruce Wei Custom Shop mother-of-pearl inlaid fingerboard beauty; twin soap-bar pick-ups, active, luthier-made bone nut, 35-inch scale, through-body string-fitting bridge, etc.

Thought I'd stick to my standard Picato 735LM nickel roundwound strings in .040", .060", .075", .095" & add either a .115" or .120" for the bottom-B. Picato suggested the .120". I tried both, agreed that the .120" is better. My luthier did the set-up correctly, but I'm REALLY disappointed with how the low-B has turned out in both sound and "feel".

It's indistinct, floppy, not a "solid" tension and actually makes trying to define the pitch of the lowest five frets' notes VERY difficult. It's a similar problem whether plucking or picking.

Any help or ideas please? Should I use heavier gauge strings all round? I've been used to 34-inch scale fretted & fretless basses with 40-95 from Picato - I'd hate to have to change the gauge of the top 4 strings, but how do I increase the tension and definition of the bottom string....? Does it matter if I have to go to, say, a .140" or above and keep the higher strings at my preferred gauge...?

I humbly await your constructive suggestions - please...!

[knuckle_head]

Are you pleased with the tension of your E string?

A string of similar tension would be about a .130 - if you are of a mind (and you would not be alone) that your B string ought to be slightly looser than your E then maybe a .125 would work better.

[capnsandwich]

Also you may want to try hex core strings instead of round core strings. They'll have a little more string tension. Maybe look for some strings that say "string through bridge". I know Sadowsky makes some that are exclusively for those types of bridges.

You may want to adjust your saddle height. That'll make a slight difference too.

[mytilini]

Many thanks to "knuckle head" and "capnsandwich" for your advice. Just to be clear, it seems you're saying to get increased tension, I do need to use a thicker string and that a .130" would be comparable to the tension in my top four (.040"-.095")?

Also, surely the saddle height can only affect the tension by being raised, i.e. effectively increasing the action for that one string, which I really wouldn't want?

[Emergancy Exit]

yeah i would go for the .130 B string

[mytilini]

O.K., there seems to be a weight of opinion in favour - thanks people!

[EADG mx]

.120 is really light for a B string

that would be the cause of your floppiness.. go with a .130-.140 (experiment a little)

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by mytilini

Many thanks to "knuckle head" and "capnsandwich" for your advice. Just to be clear, it seems you're saying to get increased tension, I do need to use a thicker string and that a .130" would be comparable to the tension in my top four (.040"-.095")?

All things being the same (construction of string, number of wraps on it, etc) the only way to increase tension is to up the gauge.

Something most players don't realize is that the vast majority of string sets have less tension as you go lower. There are reasons that I won't go in to (too long an explanation, off topic) but you might be interested to know that your E string has about 4 or 5 pounds less tension on it than your A string.

If you're in an experimental frame of mind use the high 3 strings you have, snag a .130 for your B and come by a .100 for your E and see if it feels okay to you.

[PaleMelanesian]

Originally Posted by mytilini

It's indistinct, floppy, not a "solid" tension and actually makes trying to define the pitch of the lowest five frets' notes VERY difficult. It's a similar problem whether plucking or picking.

One thing to try is just plucking closer to the bridge. I find my low B sounds more like a B and less like just a rumble when I do that. I'm adjusting my technique to play the low strings closer to the bridge and the higher strings more toward the neck, to even out the tone.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by mytilini

Does it matter if I have to go to, say, a .140" or above and keep the higher strings at my preferred gauge...?

I humbly await your constructive suggestions - please...!

.140"??? Wow, would there be any room on the fretboard for the other strings?

[DavidMP]

I would also suggest a 0.130" for the B, however, it is really important to make sure it sits well in the nut and has proper down pressure at the nut. I had to put a retainer in my bass and then the B got significantly punchier.

[tmw]

I seem to have the same problem with my five string. Sadowsky's with a B of 120. In Gary Willis' book "101 Tips..." he covered the floppiness of B strings. He had two recommendation one was to elongate your string by adding a 1/4" spacer on the opposite end of the bridge. A PC Board spacer. The other suggestion was to use a 130.

My RadioShack had the PC Board Spacers, so I am going to try that this weekend. Short of that I'll spring for a single flatwound 130.

[winston]

Another useful Gary Willis suggestion: Once the strings are tuned to pitch and after you've adjusted bridge saddles for height/intonation (if necessary), press down on the strings firmly at the bridge and nut. Especially on heavy low strings, the string won't really be in the right plane to vibrate properly until you do this. Can sometimes make a huge difference.

Once you've got that straightened out you may want to experiment with pickup height. Having the low B too far from the string will result in an indistinct sound, while a pickup too close can cause strange overtones. Good luck!

[PaleMelanesian]

Gary Willis' trick of adding a spacer does nothing for string tension.

It's been discussed TO DEATH more than once.

[maconbass]

+1 on larger guage B string. THE best B string I have tried, and I've used about everything, is the tapered .135 on MTD strings. It sounds like a grand piano when you slap on it.

[Liko]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

Something most players don't realize is that the vast majority of string sets have less tension as you go lower. There are reasons that I won't go in to (too long an explanation, off topic) but you might be interested to know that your E string has about 4 or 5 pounds less tension on it than your A string.

<THREADHIJACK>

Please elaborate. Is this by design or a law of physics, or both? Is it so that lower strings, positioned where you have the least leverage available at the end of your fingers, still feel like upper strings? Is it trying to strike a balance between consistent tone and consistent tension? do large-gauge strings, being more rigid, require more force at the same tension to fret (ideally there should be no difference, but "ideally" also assumes a wire that is infinitesimally thin or perfectly flexible, regardless of tension or mass).

I knew that the tensions were reduced as you went lower, I just don't know why.

</THREADHIJACK>

[Koki]

Be a man, go with .150 - .160

[kevinmoore73]

Originally Posted by Koki

Be a man, go with .150 - .160

Might as well just use high-tension power line at that point.

[Stumpy]

For me, the .130's were good until I tried the MTD .135x's. That set really sings. It is tight, strong and rings foreverandaday.

JMO

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by Liko

<THREADHIJACK>

Please elaborate. Is this by design or a law of physics, or both? Is it so that lower strings, positioned where you have the least leverage available at the end of your fingers, still feel like upper strings? Is it trying to strike a balance between consistent tone and consistent tension? do large-gauge strings, being more rigid, require more force at the same tension to fret (ideally there should be no difference, but "ideally" also assumes a wire that is infinitesimally thin or perfectly flexible, regardless of tension or mass).

I knew that the tensions were reduced as you went lower, I just don't know why.

</THREADHIJACK>

Sorry - but he asked....

A preface - when you make a string more slack you change the overtone structure of the note you are playing. With a looser string you accentuate the fundamental because you choke off upper transients. At the same time the string sounds/is louder because it is capable of moving more.

The reason this is a possitive is mostly because of the inadequacies of early amplification. Consider that even contemporary rigs struggle to reproduce 40 Hz - if that 40 Hz is exagerated at the bass it is easier for your rig to attempt its reproduction.

If it is hard to reproduce a 40 Hz E then it is harder still to reproduce the 31 Hz B. Hence its being looser still than the E to exagerate its output.

With rigs becoming more capable than they used to be the tonal difference is more apparent and less necessary.

Tone in the form of consistent sound from one string to the next is best had if the strings are similarly constructed (material, wrap count, tension in winding the string, etc) and similarly tensioned on your bass.