Interesting quote from Ben Kenney (roundwounds vs. flatwounds)

Ryan Mohr · #1 06-15-2009, 08:45 PM

In a BassPlayer interview about Incubus's latest album, Light Grenades, Ben Kenney said, "I’d rather use flatwounds and have no top end than use roundwounds and have a gap in the midrange." I've never really thought about this. Do you guys think flats fill in a hole in the midrange that rounds have?

He uses GHS Precision Flats on all of his Laklands and gets a great tone. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBu28...e=channel_page

Now I'm thinking of putting some La Bella 760FLs on my Fender J...

Sundogue · #2 06-15-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Mohr

In a BassPlayer interview about Incubus's latest album, Light Grenades, Ben Kenney said, "I’d rather use flatwounds and have no top end than use roundwounds and have a gap in the midrange." I've never really thought about this. Do you guys think flats fill in a hole in the midrange that rounds have?

He uses GHS Precision Flats on all of his Laklands and gets a great tone. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBu28...e=channel_page

Now I'm thinking of putting some La Bella 760FLs on my Fender J...

Sounds about right, though you can EQ in a lot of what's missing. But overall, flats sound thicker and meatier all other things being equal.

pc · #3 06-15-2009, 09:13 PM

Sounds just like in my bass... lots of low mids and a good sustain.

Ryan Mohr · #4 06-15-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Sounds about right, though you can EQ in a lot of what's missing. But overall, flats sound thicker and meatier all other things being equal.

Flats definitely have a fatter, meatier bottom with more fundamental that rounds. I just want to make sure I'm still gonna have thick, solid, punchy low-mids and mid-mids capable of the fat, burpy J bass tone I favor.

ubado · #5 06-15-2009, 09:31 PM

IMO ... D'Addario Chromes are a good transition from roundwounds ... especially if you're looking for a versatile flatwound that has a bit more lively sound than a traditional flat. (they sound great for the occasional slap'n & tap'n )

Jared Lash · #6 06-15-2009, 09:47 PM

It's a ridiculous comment.

Until I see some frequency analyses with various basses set flat into various amps set flat of several brands of roundwounds vs several brands of flatwounds to compare I can't buy any of this "hole in the midrange" stuff.

I've currently got three basses strung with rounds and two strung with flats and there are definite reasons to use each and distinct tonal differences, with flats generally trading zing for heft. But the idea that all rounds have a "hole" in the midrange is simply not true. For that matter, DR Sunbeams are the most tonally even strings I've ever tried, flats or rounds.

I love Ben Kenney's tone, but I think he's off base here.

Sundogue · #7 06-15-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigO

It's a ridiculous comment.

Until I see some frequency analyses with various basses set flat into various amps set flat of several brands of roundwounds vs several brands of flatwounds to compare I can't buy any of this "hole in the midrange" stuff.

I've currently got three basses strung with rounds and two strung with flats and there are definite reasons to use each and distinct tonal differences, with flats generally trading zing for heft. But the idea that all rounds have a "hole" in the midrange is simply not true. For that matter, DR Sunbeams are the most tonally even strings I've ever tried, flats or rounds.

I love Ben Kenney's tone, but I think he's off base here.

I agree with Sunbeams being the most tonally even (overall, though I still feel my Chromes stand out more...in a different way).

I think his comment was more along the lines where most roundwound players need to boost their mids to "cut through" and most flatwound players don't. It's not that mids aren't there at all, just not as strong.

And if I'm wrong about that, do a search on "cutting through the mix", "boost your mids to be heard", etc. and find out how many of those comments are both...from, and directed toward, roundwound players.

I've been a roundwound player for almost 30 years and recently switched to flats. First time I never had to boost my mids to be heard in a band mix. I didn't always have to using rounds either, but I did more often than not.

I think his comments have some merit, but taken out of context it's hard to qualify what exactly was meant by that. Lots of interviews end up with your words on the cutting room floor leaving you completely misunderstood. Did he elaborate beyond that statement?

Surly · #8 06-15-2009, 10:35 PM

Even in that video, his tone sounds a little on the bright side. I bet most normal people wouldn't know the difference. It's all about the mix really, Steve Harris uses new flats for each show, clanks the frets, and doesn't get mixed out. Listen to different Metallica albums with Jason, you can hear him on Garage Days but not on Justice.

Ryan Mohr · #9 06-16-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

I agree with Sunbeams being the most tonally even (overall, though I still feel my Chromes stand out more...in a different way).

I think his comment was more along the lines where most roundwound players need to boost their mids to "cut through" and most flatwound players don't. It's not that mids aren't there at all, just not as strong.

And if I'm wrong about that, do a search on "cutting through the mix", "boost your mids to be heard", etc. and find out how many of those comments are both...from, and directed toward, roundwound players.

I've been a roundwound player for almost 30 years and recently switched to flats. First time I never had to boost my mids to be heard in a band mix. I didn't always have to using rounds either, but I did more often than not.

I think his comments have some merit, but taken out of context it's hard to qualify what exactly was meant by that. Lots of interviews end up with your words on the cutting room floor leaving you completely misunderstood. Did he elaborate beyond that statement?

I know exactly what you are saying, which is why I'm considering putting La Bellas on my Fender J. I'm not doubting that the Chromes are great strings, but I hate XLs and ProSteels, and I think the Chromes will be a little too bright and clanky than what I am trying to get out of a set of flats.

Regarding Ben Kenney, here is the article it is from: http://www.bassplayer.com/article/in...y/feb-07/25466 Here's another article where he talks about flats: http://www.bassplayer.com/article/be...-on/Apr-04/650

Quote:

Ben Kenney tracked most of “Anna Molly” using a Lakland Joe Osborn bass strung with flatwounds. “I play with flatwounds 99 percent of the time,” says Ben. “I’d rather use flatwounds and have no top end than use roundwounds and have a gap in the midrange.” Ben split his signal, sending it through a D.W. Fearn DI and a Mesa Walkabout Scout miked with a Sennheiser 421. For the chords in the bridge (Ex. 4), he used a Lakland Bob Glaub strung with roundwounds.

Quote:

Your strings also set you apart from most rock guys.
Yeah, I’ve been getting into flatwounds; now I have them on all my basses, but I haven’t found a favorite brand yet. Once I started playing the newer basses, especially the Laklands, I realized they have such great sustain that I don’t need the roundwounds anymore. I can get ringing sustain with flatwounds. When that first hit me, it was like a light came down from above! It blew my mind.

I just had some flats left over from sets I was trying out on an electric upright, and I threw ’em on the Joe Osborn. I found I could play anything I’d been playing on roundwounds, and my tone suddenly matched my mental image of bass. James Jamerson just came creepin’ out of the woodwork, and I was sold.

Vakmere · #10 06-16-2009, 07:26 AM

Ever try to slap/pop a flat wound? Flats have their place along with all the other types of string. All depends whay you need in a particular song or sound.

NickyBass · #11 06-16-2009, 07:45 AM

The problem with quotes is that, taken out of context, it's easy to view them as a blanket statement rather than a view based on personal expieriences. Yes, flatwounds would work great for Incubus. However, that doesn't mean that there will be 'gaps in the midrange' (whatever that means) in context of the next guy's band.

And this statement:

"Your strings also set you apart from most rock guys."

That is just silly. Rock players have been hip to flatwounds for many many years.

Surly · #12 06-16-2009, 07:52 AM

Flats are cool, but I think a lot of this is beating the dead horse.. no offense to anyone..

I still find the conversations interesting enough to read though! :P

JTE · #13 06-16-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vakmere

Ever try to slap/pop a flat wound?

Yep. I like it. Of course, when I started learning slap and pop, it was all based on Larry Graham, who used flats for the Sly & The Family Stone recordings, so that color what I think slap and pop can sound like.

jte

DavePlaysBass · #14 06-16-2009, 06:10 PM

Ps are better than Js. 15s are better than 10s. Solid state amps are sterile. And Flats are better than rounds. What am I leaving out?

I almost forgot. All real basses have 4 strings. Everything else is junk.

JustDavid · #15 06-16-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavePlaysBass

All real basses have 4 strings.

True.

And mine's 25% more real than yours.

p-bass · #16 06-16-2009, 07:13 PM

However, that doesn't mean that there will be 'gaps in the midrange' (whatever that means) in context of the next guy's band.

Amen !

Craig_S · #17 06-16-2009, 07:19 PM

Man, I've gotta get some of those Precision Flats! I think the bass sounds great in that clip. I'm Jonesin' for a Lakie, too...

stflbn · #18 06-16-2009, 07:20 PM

i'd qualify that clip as a great tone as far as I'm concerned.

Not aggressive for many, but a great tone IMHO.

.

stflbn · #19 06-16-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubado

IMO ... D'Addario Chromes are a good transition from roundwounds ... especially if you're looking for a versatile flatwound that has a bit more lively sound than a traditional flat. (they sound great for the occasional slap'n & tap'n )

Curiously, the lightly used Chromes that I got here on TB and have on my P-bass are brighter than the broken in DR LoRiders that I have on my HH Schecter Studio 5. I noticed that last night when I went from the P-bass to the Schecter. The modded Schecter still nails a growly warwick vibe though. I don't think I could go Flats on it, but I'm definitely considering putting flats of some kind on the custom 5-string '51 TeleP I have coming from Regenerate Guitar Works. Probably will try Sadowsky Flats on it.

.

Craig_S · #20 06-16-2009, 07:31 PM

I have Chromes on one of my P Basses. They sound pretty good. I heard a bass with GHS flats, through my rig, at a party gig (P/J with EMG pickups). That bass sounded incredibly good, so this is the second time I've heard the GHS strings and liked them. I have to buy a set of the Precision Flats and compare. I think I'm going to like them better than the Chromes.