Issue with DR Lo-Rider SS

[sixgunner]

Being a new bassist (but a longtime six-srtinger) I don't really have any experience at all with bass strings.
I was recently setting up a newly acquired P and decided that new strings would be a good idea.
I'm not sure what kind of strings were on the bass when I got it but they were quite obviously Nickel-plated rounds and I did spec out the guages before removing them...they were .40-.100

The action as I set it up was low with a fairly straight neck. Slightly buzzy if you hit it really hard but nothing unreasonable.
To me, the action is quite perfect and for reference it is pretty much set to the Fender setup guide.

Fast forward...

Tonight I installed a new set of DR Lo-Riders (stainless) on the bass.... .45-.105 and I figured that I would have to make a slight truss rod adjustment because of the heavier guages if I wanted to retain my action.

After I put the Lo-Riders on, they are buzzing like crazy all over the place!

After reading through this board, I'm lead to believe that the type/material/condition of the strings makes a very significant difference on a bass guitar.
With that in mind, should I just give the Lo-Riders a bit more time to break in before adjusting the bass or buying another brand?
What do you think?

Maybe it's just the fact that they are stainless rather than nickel plated???

I really love the tension of this Lo-Rider set, and it is much better than any other bass string I've tried in that regard.
But even with the heavier guages (which should bow the neck more) I'm just not happy with the rattling.

[MysticMichael]

You mean the strings are flopping around and hitting the frets? Rather than just making an inferior tone?

Check your action again (i.e. truss rod, string saddle height, even nut slot if necessary), and see if you're getting enough clearance from the board. If not, tweak accordingly. Maybe the heavier gauge is giving you a little less clearance...

FWIW, I've got a set of medium-light SS Lo-Riders (.100-.080-.065-.045) on my Carvin LB70 fretted, and like 'em just fine. No problems...

MM

[justincest]

They're a lot higher tension, you'll need to set up that bass to them.

They sound amazing though, i'm using them on my 5 string fender and theyve lasted months so far.

[sixgunner]

What I'm saying is....
The heavier guage Lo-Riders are pulling more relief in my neck than the previous lighter strings.(obviously)
And the relief measures okay....in fact it's a bit more than I like.

So....
a) I can't straighten the neck back out, as it would make things worse
b) Why, with the new increased relief, am I getting worse buzzing than I did with my old strings that had very minimal relief?

And If I raise the saddles, my action will be higher than I prefer and not worth it at all.

Are you guys saying that I must raise the saddles because of switching from .40s to .45s?

Right now, I don't see any way that I could tweak either the neck relief or bridge saddles to prevent this problem and have anywhere near acceptable action....it'd be way too high.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

What I'm saying is....
The heavier guage Lo-Riders are pulling more relief in my neck than the previous lighter strings.(obviously)
And the relief measures okay....in fact it's a bit more than I like.

So....
a) I can't straighten the neck back out, as it would make things worse
b) Why, with the new increased relief, am I getting worse buzzing than I did with my old strings that had very minimal relief?

And If I raise the saddles, my action will be higher than I prefer and not worth it at all.

Are you guys saying that I must raise the saddles because of switching from .40s to .45s?

Right now, I don't see any way that I could tweak either the neck relief or bridge saddles to prevent this problem and have anywhere near acceptable action....it'd be way too high.

Er, put the ruler and feeler guages away, those just lead to the rubber room.

If you're getting too much rattle all up and down the neck, either the action is too low and/or you don't have enough relief in the neck.
I'd start over at the beginning and do a complete setup.

Here's how I do my setups and it's been working for decades on all kinds of different basses:

- set the height at the nut. Do this FIRST before you do anything else. Usually the slots are too high so they need to be filed down. Get the string comfortably low for fretting at half position. This is extremely important as nothing else in the setup will work unless you have the nut height set right. On new basses, the nuts are virtually always high, so this takes patience and a good set of nut files to fix.

- set the action by fretting the strings on the heel, i.e. the last 3 or 4 fret positions. If you can still get individual notes, the action is too high . Just kidding - set the action on each string for an acceptable feel at the last few frets on the heel. On new basses, the action is almost always way too high.

- now, check every position on every string everywhere on the neck. If the action is too high in the middle and up by the nut, start tightening the rod to bring it down. Stop when one position on the neck starts getting too rattely. If it's already too rattely, start loosening the rod until it starts to come up. On new basses, there's usually too much relief.

IMPORTANT: Do NOT at this point get out the feeler guages and straight edges and start measuring stuff - you'll only end up in the rubber room instead of making music on your bass!

Repeat these last steps as needed to get the action consistent and the way you want it all up and down the neck.

On most basses, there'll usually be one spot that won't be ideal no matter how much you adjust and one spot where it'll be too rattly as you adjust the rod. You want the rod set to where that last spot is just high enough to give a good sound and feel the way you want.

LS

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

Being a new bassist (but a longtime six-srtinger) I don't really have any experience at all with bass strings.
I was recently setting up a newly acquired P and decided that new strings would be a good idea.
I'm not sure what kind of strings were on the bass when I got it but they were quite obviously Nickel-plated rounds and I did spec out the guages before removing them...they were .40-.100

The action as I set it up was low with a fairly straight neck. Slightly buzzy if you hit it really hard but nothing unreasonable.
To me, the action is quite perfect and for reference it is pretty much set to the Fender setup guide.

Fast forward...

Tonight I installed a new set of DR Lo-Riders (stainless) on the bass.... .45-.105 and I figured that I would have to make a slight truss rod adjustment because of the heavier guages if I wanted to retain my action.

After I put the Lo-Riders on, they are buzzing like crazy all over the place!

After reading through this board, I'm lead to believe that the type/material/condition of the strings makes a very significant difference on a bass guitar.
With that in mind, should I just give the Lo-Riders a bit more time to break in before adjusting the bass or buying another brand?
What do you think?

Maybe it's just the fact that they are stainless rather than nickel plated???

I really love the tension of this Lo-Rider set, and it is much better than any other bass string I've tried in that regard.
But even with the heavier guages (which should bow the neck more) I'm just not happy with the rattling.

Great strings! You need to realize that it's not only the gauge that defines the tension of the string, but also the design of the string. It is not surprising that your bass might need a tweak (truss rod and maybe even a slight adjustment of the saddles when going from one brand to the other, regardless of the gauge).

Also, in some cases, taking a set of string off a bass will result in the neck moving just a bit. It sounds like all you need is a slight loosening of the truss rod.

Finally, remember that putting on a brand new set of these very bright and zingy roundwounds will result in every little bit of fret noise becoming very apparent, versus an older set of strings. So, give it an hour or two of playing to setting in, and give that truss rod a very slight loosening and you should be good to go IMO and IME.

[unclejane]

Oh and I didn't mention..... If you go to a heavier gauge string, they will sit higher in the nut than the original strings did.

This symptom sounds a little like that - strings are hard as hell to push down, action feels high and yet there's too much rattle all up and down the neck as if the action is too low and there's not enough relief.
Open strings are probably a mile high off the fingerboard.....

So I'd start at the nut myself......

LS

[sixgunner]

I've been setting up guitars correctly for over 15 years...


Nut height is perfect...slots are perfect
You are going to have to take my word for that.

Um....if I put bigger guage strings on, wouldn't I have to tighten the truss rod?
The answer is yes, because the bigger strings are pulling the neck more.

But for the sake of argument, I *did* add a bit of relief like you said, and now there is far too much and the action is too high. When I lower the saddles to compensate, it sucks.

Like I said, everything was perfect with the previous strings.

I'm pretty sure what it boils down to is that I just do not like these strings.....probably because they are stainless, and I've always hated stainless strings on guitar.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

I've been setting up guitars correctly for over 15 years...


Nut height is perfect...slots are perfect
You are going to have to take my word for that.

Um....if I put bigger guage strings on, wouldn't I have to tighten the truss rod?
The answer is yes, because the bigger strings are pulling the neck more.

Er, no the answer is not necessarily. If you went to a different brand or type of strings, they may have similar or less tension even tho they're heavier guage.

The bottom line is you have to adjust _as necessary_ to get the desired action when you go a different string. Sometimes you don't have to do anything, sometimes you have to do a complete setup and sometimes you only have to tweak a few things like the rod or a saddle or two.

Do NOT measure anything or sight down the neck, etc. The rubber room is full of guys who've been religious about adhering to this or that measurement at this or that fret, etc . Adjust the nut, action and rod _as needed and in the correct directions_ to get the action you want.

But for the sake of argument, I *did* add a bit of relief like you said, and now there is far too much and the action is too high. When I lower the saddles to compensate, it sucks.

Like I said, everything was perfect with the previous strings.

I'm pretty sure what it boils down to is that I just do not like these strings.....probably because they are stainless, and I've always hated stainless strings on guitar.

It still sounds to me like the nut is too high, but I couldn't tell unless I actually picked it up.

But yes, if it's not sounding and playing the way you want, then absolutely go back to the previous strings - why change?.

My L2000, for example, has the original set of D'addario EXL220 roundwounds I originally set it up with back on it after trying at least 4 other different sets of new strings. I tried all kinds of different flats and rounds on it to see what differences I got. I ended up back at that same set of strings, which are going on 5 years old now.

My L2500 has EXL170's on it and I've tried 3 different other sets on it. I've ended up back at these, so that's likely where it's going to stay. They're still too bright for my taste so I'm waiting for them to finally die. I prefer a completely dead but well sustaining string, so I seem to always end up with years-old rounds on all my basses....

LS

[beelzelboss]

wow, i thought i was the only one with this problem. i had a set of nickle slinkies on there (it was a quick replacement). I put those on and i nearly cried because of that. Went to my guitar teacher at school (he does basses too) and he fixed it. I beleive he added very slight releif and lifted the sadles up a litte, i can now play in dropped c standard with no prolems.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

I've been setting up guitars correctly for over 15 years...


Nut height is perfect...slots are perfect
You are going to have to take my word for that.

Um....if I put bigger guage strings on, wouldn't I have to tighten the truss rod?
The answer is yes, because the bigger strings are pulling the neck more.

But for the sake of argument, I *did* add a bit of relief like you said, and now there is far too much and the action is too high. When I lower the saddles to compensate, it sucks.

Like I said, everything was perfect with the previous strings.

I'm pretty sure what it boils down to is that I just do not like these strings.....probably because they are stainless, and I've always hated stainless strings on guitar.

Again, the answer to your above question is 'not necessarily'. Different string designs can react very differently. For example, the Hi Beams with the round cores feel like they have much lower tension (less stiff) versus the Lo Riders, even though the gauge is the same.

Per some of the other comments, you need to relax your preconceptions and assumptions, and just set the neck up so that it plays like you like it. That could result in slightly more relief on the neck, but more probably a relatively straight neck with possibly a slight raising of the saddles, given the string design, travel, etc.

And again, on some basses (especially as the seasons are changing), taking strings off the bass completely prior to putting the new set on can result in the neck settling a bit. That's no big deal, and simple tweak on the truss rod will usually fix the issue.

If you like those strings, you might want to spring for the $20 or so to have a professional adjustment, since things might need a bigger tweak than you are used to. After that, you should be able to go back to the minor adjustments that are sometimes needed over time.

Again, they are great strings, and worth the trouble to get them dialed into your instrument IMO.

[sixgunner]

Originally Posted by KJung

If you like those strings, you might want to spring for the $20 or so to have a professional adjustment, since things might need a bigger tweak than you are used to.

Again, I do my own setups, and there is no reason for me to take anything to a "professional" for adjustment....there is nothing that they can do that I'm not fully capable of.
Early on I worked with some professional luthiers and learned these processes and have been setting up instrumets for years....my own, and for other professional musicians.

However, not being a bass player myself, I've never run into this particular issue about the strings.
As I said earlier, I am realizing now that the bass guitar is far more particular about strings than regular electrics are.
Of all the basses I've set up for other musicians, I've never received any complaints about the work I've done.

I have now fully setup this bass specifically around these Lo-riders (yes...the nut is perfect) and I'm still not happy with them.....I like the tension of them compared to the previous strings, but that's about it.


Please try to understand that I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I was just trying to explain my background a little bit so that y'all understand that I know exactly what I'm doing.
I've been posting a little rushed because I've had my hands full this weekend and I'm running on very little sleep, so if I sounded curt, that's the only reason.

I respect everyone's opinion, and advice...and this is a great board!!!!

I think at this point what is going on is that these strings need to break in a bit more in order to lose their raspiness.
That is really the only thing that has not been eliminated in the whole equation......I will give that a bit more time before deciding whether or not to dump the strings and go back to nickels.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

I think at this point what is going on is that these strings need to break in a bit more in order to lose their raspiness.
That is really the only thing that has not been eliminated in the whole equation......I will give that a bit more time before deciding whether or not to dump the strings and go back to nickels.

This is the other thing I was going to suggest might be part of the problem. New rounds typically are very ringy and bright, even on a decent setup they can still sound like you have the action too low or there's a problem with too much buzz, etc. I usually have to play a new set of strings for a few months before they deaden up to where I like the sound.

But if the strings _feel_ wrong (not just sound wrong) then there's still a problem with the setup. I.e. if too much force is required, action feels high etc. That should be correct immediately no matter how new or old the strings are.

If it's just the sound, yeah let them deaden up for a while. I have to play a new set for a couple months before they go dead enough to where I like them.

LS

[LightGroove]

Well I'm not sure if its a DR thing or a setup thing..

I've run into this issue as well. I picked up a Cirrus with crazy low action. Very little relief and it sounded very good..

Decided to do a string swap and just about ended up in the nut house. I could not figure out how a simple string change could throw things out that much...but it did. Buzzing and dead notes...Really bummed me out. and bout drove me crazy.

What I've learned is to let things settle for a day or 2 after putting on new strings. Even if things are way out of whack after the switch I let it sit. Then I capo the neck as it enters the body or capo the first fret and push down with my right hand the point on each string that enters the body. If I like the relief I start with the action. Then an intonation check and then attempt to play.

I think feeler gauges are helpful.

Lo-riders are pretty high tension by my standards. My suspicion is in your relief. I personally dropped the Nickel Lo-riders for some Sunbeams and now I'm back in low action heaven.

[sixgunner]

relief is perfect....it's obvously these particular strings.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

relief is perfect....it's obvously these particular strings.

I've always had good results with D'addarios. I'm using the EXL nickel rounds on both my basses (EXL 220 on my L2000 fretless and EXL170 on my L2500 also fretless). They're still pretty bright and rattle a good bit when new, but get nice and wooly with still a good pop when they finally die....

LS

[sixgunner]

Oh, the Lo-riders seem like they would be outstanding for slapping, they really snap and ring very well.
Historically my strings of choice are GHS Boomers....but never tried them for bass.

[sixgunner]

Originally Posted by unclejane

This is the other thing I was going to suggest might be part of the problem. New rounds typically are very ringy and bright, even on a decent setup they can still sound like you have the action too low or there's a problem with too much buzz, etc. I usually have to play a new set of strings for a few months before they deaden up to where I like the sound.

Right.
When I've setup basses for customers I've experienced the same thing but never to this degree at all.
....but to think of it, I've never strung any bass with pure SS strings either so this is my first go 'round with that.

A few months for a string break in is way too long, IMO
Do bass strings really take that long?

With six-string guitars, my strings are as broken as they will ever get in within a day.

What I might do is just grab a set of Lo-Rider nickels....
Given that I like the tension of the current set, but not the SS feel or sound, the LR nickels should be fine

The only reason I got the LR SS in the first place is because those are the only DRs they had at the music store where my mom works.
I told her to grab me a set on her way out the door.....and I was trying to talk her through the selection process over the phone.
Needless to say, I didn't have to shell out anywhere near retail price for them.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

Right.
When I've setup basses for customers I've experienced the same thing but never to this degree at all.
....but to think of it, I've never strung any bass with pure SS strings either so this is my first go 'round with that.

A few months for a string break in is way too long, IMO
Do bass strings really take that long?

If you're gigging, no. They start to die by the end of the night and in a couple weeks they've calmed down a bunch.

I'm not playing as much these days so it takes longer for me. Also, fretless is a little more tolerant because you don't have the clicking of the frets...

LS

[southpaw420]

Originally Posted by sixgunner

Oh, the Lo-riders seem like they would be outstanding for slapping, they really snap and ring very well.
.

they certainly are, I was keeping chrome flats on my l2k for almost a year until i finally decided the flats werent doin my slapping justice. I ended up goin with SS Lo-riders and for the first couple of days i was a little put off by the whole new string noise that I always get whenever I buy stainless steels. I was actually going to sell this bass as I was in some serious need of money and was thinking of buying a 5er to replace it. It took about 3 days of barely playing it for the strings to settle a little and now Im officially in love. I love the way harmonics come out on these strings. the slap tone is awesome and sounds perfect whenever my band does p-funk covers. my whole point basically is, give it a couple days