John Paul Jones & Flatwounds

[mulepods]

I've seen some talk of John Paul Jones using flatwounds for Zeppelin stuff, especially the early albums. But apparently he switched to rounds before Zeppelin. This is from an interview:

Were you using flatwounds?
No, Rotosound roundwounds. I stopped using flatwounds during my session days; they were a bit too thumpy. The Rotosounds gave me better clarity, and I also needed the sustain—if Robert stopped singing, there were only two of us minding the shop, as it were. I’d change the strings every week maybe; I’m not sure.

[FireAarro]

That's really interesting. It sure doesn't sound like he changes strings every week.

[mulepods]

I agree. On the early albums, especially Zeppelin II, his sound is so mellow and warm. Maybe that was simply the sound of his amp, or the EQ on the board, or whatever.

[lilboo77]

I have read somewhere that JPJ used an acoustic bass for recording in the studio.

[SGT. Pepper]

The early Zep stuff sure does sound like flats. If he was using Rotos he must have boosted the low mids and rolled off the trble to get that sound. It's the only possible explanation for it.

[bassist15]

This might sound like a dumb question , but what exactly do you mean by rolling off the treble . Liek turning it down? also does everybody usually have the high and low mids on jsut a bit or way up?

[SGT. Pepper]

Originally Posted by bassist15

This might sound like a dumb question , but what exactly do you mean by rolling off the treble . Liek turning it down? also does everybody usually have the high and low mids on jsut a bit or way up?

Rolling off= turning down.
As far as EQing it depends on the room setting and acoustics. What works in one place may not sound as good in another.

[Calaverasgrande]

Originally Posted by SGT. Pepper

The early Zep stuff sure does sound like flats. If he was using Rotos he must have boosted the low mids and rolled off the trble to get that sound. It's the only possible explanation for it.

Or it could be that the engineer/producer didnt like the zingy roto sound so they just lowpassed the signal. The zep stuff was recorded not too long after rotos came out. People werent really used to hearing roundwounds yet.

[canopener]

If any of you have the Zep DVDs, you can tell on some of the first sets that he's using flats on closeups. I don't know when he switched, but in the BBC Session CDs, it sounds like he uses rounds on the second half.

Oh well, I'm not about to debate the type of strings that any bassists use.

[KoalaBass]

Hey! go to Getty Images | Stock Photography, Editorial Photos, Footage & Music and search "John Paul Jones". The photos are dated and you can clearly see that up to 1975, he's using flatwounds!for example: Keyboardist And Bass Player John Paul Jones Of The Rock Band Led

[Arthur U. Poon]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

Or it could be that the engineer/producer didnt like the zingy roto sound so they just lowpassed the signal. The zep stuff was recorded not too long after rotos came out. People werent really used to hearing roundwounds yet.

+1. This is my assumption as well.

[JTE]

Well, it's obvious that he's forgotten some things. Because around 1977 in Guitar Player Magazine he said he switched from flats to rounds when he got the Alembic bass. He said then that he'd tried it with flats and realized he was missing half the sound of the bass.

There's another thread here (maybe not in strings however) that resurface a few weeks ago discussing this. Someone found the original GP article and quoted it.

John

[JohnnyGuest]

I know JPJ is using Elixrs now, for smoothness and longevity, supposedly. I've never bought into them, but might try em'!

Personally, I think JPJ had a P type tone, it's shocking to see it come out of a jazz bass. I think he tuned his whole rig for that tone.

[m.oreilly]

Originally Posted by KoalaBass

Hey! go to Getty Images | Stock Photography, Editorial Photos, Footage & Music and search "John Paul Jones". The photos are dated and you can clearly see that up to 1975, he's using flatwounds!for example: Keyboardist And Bass Player John Paul Jones Of The Rock Band Led

how can you tell from this example?

[m.oreilly]

Originally Posted by JohnnyGuest

I know JPJ is using Elixrs now, for smoothness and longevity, supposedly. I've never bought into them, but might try em'!

Personally, I think JPJ had a P type tone, it's shocking to see it come out of a jazz bass. I think he tuned his whole rig for that tone.

i hear ya, but again, the recording peeps ran the show...

[KoalaBass]

Originally Posted by m.oreilly

how can you tell from this example?

Look at the other pictures, from 1969 up to 1975, his strings definitely shine like flats...

[bluesblaster]

I suppose we'll have to take Mr. Jones at his word, however I have seen pictures of them in the studio and the old acoustic 360 amp can be seen in the background mic'ed up, perhaps this is how that smooth thumpier sound was acheived on the recordings. Rotosound rounds were available during that time and many british bass players like Entwisle and Squire were using them. By contrast, I would have thought the bass solo on "my generation" was RW, but as it turns out they were labella tapewounds, so go figure.

[bluesblaster]

Actually, if you check out the film/Doc "How the West was Won" you can hear him playing the Jazz bass on the Immigrant song and it is clearly not flatwound strings.

[Mike M.]

I've been wrong many times before, but his tone on the first Zep album sure sounds like flat's to me, especially during his little break in "Good Times, Bad Times."

I've also thought he was using flat's on the second album as well. "The Lemon Song"....if those aren't flats then they must have been some very dead rounds.

Eh, who knows?

[kcole4001]

Close listening to Black Dog exhibits very much roundwound tone, growl, and fret noise.

I have to agree that some songs, 'Good Times/Bad Times' particularly, much of LZ I and II really, sound very much like flats, but it must have been a combination of engineer's EQ, amp/cabs, and limits of recording technology.