Karl Alvarez' Tone on Non-MM Bass?

[Count Bassie]

I've been listening to the Descendents CD "Everything Sucks", and the tone of Alvarez' MM Stingray is just the thing I'd like to be able to get out of my bass. I have a Peavey Dyna-Bass Unity, and it's a Poplar body (wings) with a Maple neck and Ebony 'board. I love the play of my bass, so I don't think I need to go selling and looking and all that business. I just want to refine what I have here.

I'm thinking that possibly a Nord MM replacement for a p'up (the Peavey now has stock Peavey PJs) could be the thing, but I got an interesting reply on my original thread, mentioning that maybe I just need new strings? This thread is a more specific extension of that original thread, here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...94#post6424694

I've been using LaBella Nylon Wounds on this one, and obviously that's not going to get the sound I'm talking about- but this "revelation" just happened 2 days ago.


Now, I also have an Ibanez Roadstar that I've converted to a fancier-looking Ibanez Roadstar... here:


It occurs to me to drop a MM into the 'Sweet-Spot' that the DiMarzio (2-conductor) is now sitting- but again, maybe it's realistically more of a strings issue? The DiMarzio does get a nice low-mid wallop- but not enough growl... I currently have Fender Stainless Flats on it. Just thought I'd go ahead and complicate this further.

More on this, anyone? Thanks!

[El_JimBob]

I love Karl's sound too - have been listening to 'Everything Sucks' and ALL's 'Mass Nerder' alot recently. Pickup placement and string choice have to count for something, but have you considered technique as well? He plays very fast, muted, staccato fingerstyle and by practicing this i have been able to get quite a close approximation of his sound on my G&L basses (which he also has used at some point i understand). I have seen him play with a P-Bass and he also got a very similar sound, so it's worth considering....

[Count Bassie]

I do notice that when I attack very hard and fast, and move just a little bit toward the bridge, I can get a very snarly sound going on. But- there's a deeper and more present character on that recording than I 'see' in my sound. I don't believe it's just the recording.

But you're right, there is a technique thing there.

Also, tonight at the blues band rehearsal (I play in a blues band as well as a reggae band and a punk-arse pop thing) I played my new (to me) Danelectro DC. Went into some 80's pre, to a poweramp, and into an old Peavey 215 cab with only 1x 8 ohm BW speaker. When I dialed in the lower range of mids a bit and pulled out the upper mids, there it came. It was it's own character, but the growl was apparent.

I'm digging the DC bass alright, but still want the MM sound.

[Green Mind]

Not to say you won't get a similar sound with a MM bass or pickup but I think a more accurate definition of his sound comes P-basses which I believe he used much more.

[Count Bassie]

Originally Posted by Green Mind

Not to say you won't get a similar sound with a MM bass or pickup but I think a more accurate definition of his sound comes P-basses which I believe he used much more.

I think that the sound on "Everything Sucks" is pretty danged Music Man! But as I noted, I'm learning you can get some of it from many different instruments.

[Green Mind]

Just listened the tracks from the album and I agree, the tone is very music man compared to other albums. As for actual advice, I think you can get closer to that sound by rolling off about 80% of your tone knob until you can just start to hear that change. Turning up the low-mids, cutting some lows, and adding just enough highs to not be twangy. Play with a decent amount of attack somewhat near bridge with worn in strings. This might be basic knowledge for you but just thought I'd put it out there.

[Count Bassie]

Originally Posted by Green Mind

Just listened the tracks from the album and I agree, the tone is very music man compared to other albums. As for actual advice, I think you can get closer to that sound by rolling off about 80% of your tone knob until you can just start to hear that change. Turning up the low-mids, cutting some lows, and adding just enough highs to not be twangy. Play with a decent amount of attack somewhat near bridge with worn in strings. This might be basic knowledge for you but just thought I'd put it out there.

That's pretty good. I've been thinking along those lines, so thanks for the affirmation and refining of the direction! Yeah, I'll try turning the lows down a bit next time. I've just started heading this way at all bass-related endeavors and will stay at it until I see how much of it I can get. If I think I've had enough, I'll stop before I go get tormented over a Nordstran p'up!

Just for notes: I had the neck p'up tone knob on the DC rolled back just about 80%, and the bridge p'up's tone a good bit forward (toward 'treble'). Both p'ups were pretty fully on for vol, and I was starting to get the growl. Low-mids on the preamp wer up about 2 O'clock, High-mids back to about 9 or 10 O'clock.

A fun experiment- thanks for the help, Green!

[Green Mind]

No problem. Good luck on your tone quest.

[El_JimBob]

And lets have more talk of Karl around here!

One of the finest and a real inspiration

[overdrivethree]

i will say this...

he is definitely playing a MM in the liner shots for album. but at that time, when e-mail was brand new, i wrote Bill Stevenson a little fan note and asked him what kinda bass Karl used. he said a Precision.

then i saw them at Warped in '97, not long after Sucks came out. he was playing an 80's Precision Special (or is it a Jazz/Duff McKagan?) with the black headstock and gun metal gray body, with P/J pickups.

for a lot of the ALL stuff, i know he used a modded and well-worn 70's Precision w/ EMG P/J's in it. a very midrangey, almost jazzy tone.

[Count Bassie]

Ah, so I have been decieved!

Cool info. Can't listen to your eyes...