Long-scale flatwounds on a short-scale BG?

[Jack Clark]

Has anyone ever had to use a long-scale flatwound string on a short-scale BG?

If so, did you do something like glue the string at one point before you clipped off the excess?

Are there any problems with winding several inches more of string around the machine tuners than usual?

Bottom line question, I guess, is simply "Can it be done?" I.e., can you safely use a long-scale flatwound on a short-scale instrument, if you have to? And what problems do you run into?

[Pilgrim]

I just strung 'em, measured about 3 fingers past each tuner and cut 'em off, then wrapped 'em. No problems.

[fretlessguy]

I just went ahead and got a short scale set and put them on. Probably nothing will happen if you cut them down some, but since I can get short scale flats without paying anymore money I went ahead and used them for peace of mind.

FG

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

I just strung 'em, measured about 3 fingers past each tuner and cut 'em off, then wrapped 'em. No problems.

What do you mean by "wrapped 'em," Pilgrim? What materials, tools, etc., do I need, and how do I do that?

Thanks.

[PJSShearer]

Thread the string over/thougth the bridge.

Measure 2" (or 3 fingers) past the tuner, put a 90 degree bend in the string with a pair of pliers.

Cut the excess off - 1/2" past the bend - that'll help stop the windings unravelling.

Then wind the string around the machine head and bring up to tension.

Note: When winding the string around the machine head, insert the end into the hole provided, start winding at the top of the post and travel down towards the headstock. If you have more than three turns around the machine head, cut a little more off and start again. Under no circumstances should the windings overlap!!.

[sevenyearsdown]

If you cut too much off, they may not fit the hole in the tuning post at all. That is, if you have to cut the entire end of that would normally by the portion that would be in the post on a normal scale.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

If you cut too much off, they may not fit the hole in the tuning post at all. That is, if you have to cut the entire end of that would normally by the portion that would be in the post on a normal scale.

This especially concerns me because the string I'm concerned with here is a 0.126" string in the lowest bass position. If I don't cut off a lot of the end, then I might have overlaping coils on the machine tuner. If I do cut off a lot of the end, then I might not be able to get the string through the hole in the tuner at all. Between these two evils, obviously I have to opt for threading the thing and putting up with any overlaps that might occur.

Of course, I am talking about a guitarrón here with wide enclosed-at-both-ends tuners (like a classical guitar; see my avatar), which I think will accept more windings on the machine tuner than a vertical-post-type tuner that is open at one end. Maybe overlapping coils wouldn't be as much of a problem (or any problem at all) since the tuner is enclosed at both ends. No chance of a string flipping over the top of the post and off the tuner.

See what I mean here?

In any case, the 0.126" string hasn't arrived in the mail yet. When it does and I get to handle it, some of these issues may turn out to be non-issues.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by nimbleswitch

What do you mean by "wrapped 'em," Pilgrim? What materials, tools, etc., do I need, and how do I do that?

Thanks.

Pretty much what the next post said....I put the strings through the bridge, ran them up the neck, measured about 3-4 fingers' width past the target tuner (longer if you wish - you can always cut a string shorter...), and cut the string. Then I bent the end 90 degrees with a pair of pliers, stuck it into the hole in the center of the tuner, and turned the tuner (wrapped the string - careless phrasing on my part) to wrap the string around it. I make sure that at least one wrap goes OVER the string coming out of the slot at the end of the tuner, and I wrap from the top of the tuner down toward the headstock to keep as much break angle over the nut as possible.

In short, I did NOTHING different than I ever do when installing strings. The cut off end is buried in the center of the tuner with other wraps holding it there - nothing's gonna happen to it.

[Jack Clark]

See, I thought by "wrapping" the strings you were referring to wrapping the string ends with something (tape? silk? whipping?) before installing them on the machines. I didn't realize you were just referring to winding the strings on the tuners.

I'll let you know how this 0.126" string works out. I only hope it doesn't develop so much tension that it rips my bridge off as I approach that E1 note.

[JustDavid]

0.126 E?!?!? Apologies: I'm not familiar with the guitarron: why so thick? That sounds like a lightish B.

Had some issues with an extra long B I misordered being too thick for my tuning machine. I resisted filing the slot, & ended up being able to slightly crimp the string to fit. Careful use of Vice Grips (if that's not an oxymoron), squeezed in very small steps, with the goal of making the string "thinner but taller" (hope that explains it). The string was close to fitting in initially: I don't know if I'd have done it if there was a big difference.

[Jack Clark]

JD-

I think this crimping idea should work for me, too, if it comes to that.

Right now I have a short-scale GHS Brite Flat 0.108" as an E1 string, but I'm finding it loose. It will sound an E1, but not with much vigor--and it feels too loose, too. By contrast, next to it I have a GHS Precision Flat 0.95" string tuned to A1, even though that string was intended as a short-scale BG E1 string, and I like the sound and feel of it as an A1 string. (The D2 string is a tuned-up A1 string, etc.)

The reason for the 0.126" is that that is the next thinist flatwound I have been able to find above the 0.108" I currently have installed as the E1 string. I'd try a 0.115", or such, if I could find one. My guitarrón's scale is only 26".

Of course, I'm tuning all the strings up a 4th, which seems a lot. I'm not detecting any strain on the neck (which has been reinforced by the addition of a 1/4" thick hardwood fingerboard installed on top of the original all the way down to the sound hole), but over time, who knows? I sure like the sound and feel of the higher-tension flatwounds, though.

I need the higher-tension strings because I have lowered the action so much from the original very high action of a traditional guitarrón by the addition of the built-up fingerboard. I get a bit of buzzing now, especially when playing A on the E1 string in 3rd position. (I.e., in BG terms, the 5th imaginary fret.) It's one of those one-thing-leads-to-another type of experimental projects. I may end up concluding that I had the action reduced too much by the added fingerboard, I dunno. (I won't mention the see-saw I've gone though with the endpin.)

But, anyway, your idea of, in essence, making my own string tip with the aid of Vice Grips sounds workable to me. Thanks!

[Jack Clark]

Well, just to let you know. I physically got the 0.126" string to wind onto my lowest string position, but it did not sound good. Buzzed as much as the 0.108" and sounded dead. I went back to the 0.108.

My gitarrón is with my luthier, now. One of the things he's going to do is plane down the high-note end of the fingerboard, just under the E1 and A1 strings. I notice that some fingerboards are actually cut away on the bass side anyway--I think they call them "solo fingerboards." That should take care of the slight buzzing I'm currently getting from the E1 and A1 strings.

I'm also having the bottom reinforced for a new, more-permanent endpin, and some other more minor stuff done. Be without it for a couple of weeks, I think. :^[

[mellowgerman]

I've been using the same set of fender long scale flats (even long enough for a string-thru longscale) on my 30-inchers for years now. Never had a problem. I had to unwind a bit of the outer coil... solid as any other string I've ever had. My current set is going on 7 years i think.
At the same time, some brands are more fragile than others. For Labellas for example, once you run out of the threaded end on the E string, it breaks. Had that happen to me last year.

[Pilgrim]

0.126?? Gawdalmighty, why don't you just buy some 1/8" steel cable and use it?

I tried some Jamersons with a .110 E and gave them up after about 10 minutes.

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by mellowgerman

Labellas for example, once you run out of the threaded end on the E string, it breaks.

Ditto.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by mellowgerman

At the same time, some brands are more fragile than others. For Labellas for example, once you run out of the threaded end on the E string, it breaks. Had that happen to me last year.

Originally Posted by mongo2

Ditto.

Thanks. I'll stay away.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

0.126?? Gawdalmighty, why don't you just buy some 1/8" steel cable and use it?

I tried some Jamersons with a .110 E and gave them up after about 10 minutes.

LOL! Why don't I just buy a bass and be done with it! Yeah, the 0.126 was like that, alright. Maybe I'll try something like a 0.116, if I get a chance, but I'll stay with the 0.108 for a while, anyway.

[Jack Clark]

Well, as Samuel Goldwyn would say, "We've passed a lot of water since then."

Believe it or not, I eventually went with Rotosound Tru Bass black nylon-wrapped flatwounds that juststrings.com sells in a 6-string set, with the lowest string (intended to be a B0 on a bass guitar) tuned up a fourth to E1. That's a 0.135" string! Although my upright guitarrón will never sound like a double bass, this set of strings makes it sound more like a DB than anything I've tried. I've had them for months now, and I'm not planning on changing them.