LONG and THICK strings.

[Roland777]

I was thinking about the sub-octave E bass that I've been sketching up these last few days... What strings are available if you want to tune to sub-octave E on a "39-scale? Is there any available alternative?

[Beav]

Check out the Kunckle Quake basses. They're 39" scale.

[Roland777]

Originally Posted by beav2k2

Check out the Kunckle Quake basses. They're 39" scale.

I know, but what I'm asking for here is strings.

[lug]

Originally Posted by Roland777

I know, but what I'm asking for here is strings.

Contact Skip at Knuckle. I'm sure he will help you out, dude's the nicest guy in the world. Would regular steel double bass strings work for your application?

[greenboy]

Actually the Quake is 39.5".

None of the strings but the low E0 need to be thicker than what's standardly available - that's the advantage of a longer scale, since when you go increasingly thicker you also lose any semblance of clarity and snap.

Standard strings from most companies work for the D and G but because of the nut-end taper so that a thicker string can work with a tuning peg, you need to commision strings at a pretty high price to get an A - and of course the E, since it is thicker AND has a longer speaking length than what is available elsewhere.

Skip commisioned his strings primarily to get a matching set but the clinchers are the A and E for the above reasons. Just as an example, the E0 string was .195, but hopefully a .185 from another compay's prototype will become available, because it really kicked ass. The G can work well from .070 to .080, the D from .095 to .105, and A0 from .130 to .145. But getting the strings for that A0 and E0 is difficult and expensive unless you can commision a number of sets somewhere.

The Quake really has authority in fingerstyle but what really surprised me is that it's also a great slapping bass that sounds like the bigger brother of some other bass that slaps well, but ultimately seems a little life-sized after you've heard the Quake's thundering voice ; }

[Roland777]

Great info, greenboy, thanks. I'll look into more info on the E-string. In the meanwhile, do you personally know of any stringmanufacturer making a .140-string with a "40 wound length? The scale length on the A is "38.25, but I need an extra inch and a half or so to spare for the bridge.

[greenboy]

Sorry, I don't know of any except what Skip may (or may not) have around.

[knuckle_head]

Check with Ken Smith - I understand a flavor of his strings is available with a 40" speaking length, but I am not certain of the gauges he offers or of the construct specifically of his strings.

Edit; report back with specifics if you're able to dig anything up.

[Roland777]

Digging up the strings listed on his page, I find the thickest string with a "40-winding is a .130-gauge. Kind of squeamish for an A, I suspect... I've inquired for a "40 .140-string. Waiting for an answer.
Knuckle_head: You're Skip? In that case, I wonder how you solve the E0-string issue on your basses. What exactly is the scale-length on your basses, what gauges do you find work best for the E0, and what's their wound length? Finally, roughly how much tension and tone can you get out of the E0? Is it a compromise, or is it just as prominent and tense as an E1 on a standard bass? I don't want to flood you with questions, but these are the ones I have, and you're by far the most qualified person to ask these questions.
One more question - do you have any videos or more demos of the Quake apart from what's provided on your site? I'd love to SEE one of them in action!

Originally Posted by lug

Contact Skip at Knuckle. I'm sure he will help you out, dude's the nicest guy in the world. Would regular steel double bass strings work for your application?

I actually have no idea. Are they flatwounds or roundwounds? How would they compare to regular e-bass roundwounds?

[Roland777]

Aaaaand according to Ken Smith himself, .130 is as thick as he goes on the "40 wound strings.

[greenboy]

.130 is great for the A0. As long as you don't overdo the gauges on the D and G it'll be fantastic.

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by Roland777

Knuckle_head: You're Skip? In that case, I wonder how you solve the E0-string issue on your basses. What exactly is the scale-length on your basses, what gauges do you find work best for the E0, and what's their wound length? Finally, roughly how much tension and tone can you get out of the E0? Is it a compromise, or is it just as prominent and tense as an E1 on a standard bass?

Yup - I'm Skip.

The scale length on my Quake is 39.5", and the primary reason I went to a longer scale length is so I could use thinner gauges to reach lower - helps huge in maintaining articulation. I have had one success to this point with E0 from my Everly stock which is a .195. La Bella owes me a .185 that I hold out high hopes for as it is a very lively string tuned to F# on a 34" scale. I expect the .185 to be what I will settle on for a while. I approximate the tension on my E0 to be in the mid to high 30's in pounds of tension - that is in very close proximity to a decent standard E1 tension I believe.

One more question - do you have any videos or more demos of the Quake apart from what's provided on your site? I'd love to SEE one of them in action!

There are samples on the Bass Tasters site - of a 5 string single passive 5 tuned to standard B, and a dual passive 6 tuned to F#. They are amazing samples as compared to the ones I have. The music from the bands listed on my site were recorded with Quakes as well. Soloed/isolated is probably better, but they are intended as ensemble instruments so I hope one of those sources serves you.

There's a live video being shot in Portland this weekend with a 5 string Quake - I expect I will be offered an edit once it is completed.

Where on the planet are you? There are about a dozen of them floating around and I believe at least half of them are being gigged with.

EDIT; I agree with greenboy that the .130 ought to make a decent A0 string, though you may end up having to go lighter as you go up to keep tensions balanced.

[Roland777]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

Where on the planet are you? There are about a dozen of them floating around and I believe at least half of them are being gigged with.

EDIT; I agree with greenboy that the .130 ought to make a decent A0 string, though you may end up having to go lighter as you go up to keep tensions balanced.

I'm in Sweden. Shipping plus taxes to here from the states are rather hefty from what I've seen so far...
You're saying that maybe I should go even lighter than a .130 tuned to A0 at 38.25"? I had no idea that the increased scale-length makes that big of a difference that quick. What annoys me is that I'm having troubles calculating string-tension and gauges - what little help is offered only applies to traditional tunings and gauges, not to mention scale-length. All I can say as a reference is that I'd like to have about 37-38 pounds of tension on the bottom, as that's what my .110 tuned to D on "35 has. Feels just about right - tight enough to prevent buzzing, but yet loose enough to facilitate easy fingerstyling.
EDIT: Checked out the clips on Basstasters - an absolute monster you've got there!

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Roland777

You're saying that maybe I should go even lighter than a .130 tuned to A0 at 38.25"?

No, we are saying that the strings for the higher pitched strings need to match that; not be too heavy.

But I must have missed that you are going for 38.25 scale length - I thought it was 39" ... which is good since you need to allow for the distance between the barrels and the ball ends at the bridge. But it also makes it more likely that you need larger gauges if you want the tension you mention. Just as a point of reference, Skip's 39.5 scale with A0 is nearly equivalent at the second fret to a 35"-scale bass's open low B. 38.25" A0 at the second fret corresponds to a 34"-scale bass's open low B.

So it's likely you'll want at least .135 which will give 36.19 pounds at A0 tuning on 38.25" scale.

I had no idea that the increased scale-length makes that big of a difference that quick. What annoys me is that I'm having troubles calculating string-tension and gauges - what little help is offered only applies to traditional tunings and gauges, not to mention scale-length. All I can say as a reference is that I'd like to have about 37-38 pounds of tension on the bottom, as that's what my .110 tuned to D on "35 has. Feels just about right - tight enough to prevent buzzing, but yet loose enough to facilitate easy fingerstyling.

First download D'Addarios' tension guide if you haven't already. Their strings are roughly the same as everybody else's within a given type, as concerns tension. So it'll get you unit weights to use in calculations. I've got a spreadsheet you can use to calculate for any scale length and for any pitch that's practical, using those D'Addario unit weight. I'd do it with both the steel and nickel weights and then average the results, that seems to be based on variances of core and wrap ratios.

Here, Roland, go ahead and DL it: http://lowdownlowdown.com/greenboy/DL/String/

[Roland777]

Originally Posted by greenboy

But I must have missed that you are going for 38.25 scale length - I thought it was 39" ...

...Here, Roland, go ahead and DL it: http://lowdownlowdown.com/greenboy/DL/String/

I'll check it once I'm not at work.

As far as the bass goes, it's a fanned fret, starting at "39 and working its way down with a ".75 differential between each string. The A will be "38.25 in that case.

[greenboy]

Ah, another convert to the multi-scale concept : } - doing any calcs yet, Roland?

[Roland777]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Ah, another convert to the multi-scale concept : } - doing any calcs yet, Roland?

Yes I did, but how, oh how, do you get gauges out of unit weights? Is that possible?

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Roland777

Yes I did, but how, oh how, do you get gauges out of unit weights? Is that possible?

Right now, only out of the D'Addario pdf - unless you have weighed a bunch of strings and figured them out.

[Taurus]

Hope you guys have biiiiiiig hands.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Taurus

Hope you guys have biiiiiiig hands.

Nope, and it isn't even an issue. Think of it this way: Skip's 39.5" Quake on the A0 string is JUST TWO FRETS longer than a 35"-scale bass with B0. Same note, same distance. But the Quake gives an additional two notes below on that string, and a bunch more on the E0 string.