Low B and F# = No Sustain

FunkMetalBass · #1 05-20-2010, 12:46 PM

The title says it all. I'm using it on a JC Custom 35" scale bolt-on, with an ebony nut and single-string bridges. All of the strings, save the B and F#, are strung thru-body. I'm using an Octave4Plus set with a 0.140 B and a 0.174 F#. The strings just die far too quickly and have no sustain compared to the other 6. I don't think it's the pickups, but I'll be replacing those before this year's end with some SGD humbuckers because I hate single coil hum.

Could it be the ebony nut? Could it just be that Gary Goodman's strings aren't the best for this kind of job and I need to head over to CircleK? Could it be the bridge?

This is my bass:

(I apologize if I posted this in the wrong area. Not sure where it would fit best)

thatonedude02 · #2 05-20-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

...All of the strings, save the B and F#, are strung thru-body...

Thru-body supposedly increases sustain... Being that the two strings not strung thru-body are the ones having problems with sustain... Have you tried stringing them through?

FunkMetalBass · #3 05-20-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatonedude02

Thru-body supposedly increases sustain... Being that the two strings not strung thru-body are the ones having problems with sustain... Have you tried stringing them through?

All of my other basses are top-loaded, and one of them is a bolt-on Spector Legend, so I'm inclined to think that the thru-body may not be the big issue.

Buuuut...yes, I have tried to feed them through. They won't fit, unless there are some wider ferrules out there. I guess I could always put the bass under the drill press and slightly widen them and the bridge holes.

thatonedude02 · #4 05-20-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

All of my other basses are top-loaded, and one of them is a bolt-on Spector Legend, so I'm inclined to think that the thru-body may not be the big issue.

Buuuut...yes, I have tried to feed them through. They won't fit, unless there are some wider ferrules out there. I guess I could always put the bass under the drill press and slightly widen them and the bridge holes.

You certainly could widen the holes, but I'd leave it to a professional (that's just me, I have little wood working skills). It's such a pretty bass, I would hate to ruin it.

Just seemed like an outstanding variable. Top loading designs certainly are not a problem for sustain, but I don't know enough about bass setup to know if having a few strings one way and a few the other might cause a problem....

From a strictly scientific point of view, taking a look at what's different might get you results. Nut material is constant over all strings. All strings use the same bridge (or type of, in this case). String size could be a reason. Tension, perhaps.

knuckle_head · #5 05-20-2010, 03:04 PM

If the E and higher strings are performing normally, I would suggest that it is not anything to do with the bass - nut, bridges, or electronics. Nor do I believe it is a through body affectation. One thing to check is how well-affixed the B and F# bridges are to the body.

From experience I can say that Circle K, La Bella or SIT strings don't suffer sustain differentiation at these gauges. I have no first hand experience with Gary's strings.

FunkMetalBass · #6 05-20-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatonedude02

You certainly could widen the holes, but I'd leave it to a professional (that's just me, I have little wood working skills). It's such a pretty bass, I would hate to ruin it.

Just seemed like an outstanding variable. Top loading designs certainly are not a problem for sustain, but I don't know enough about bass setup to know if having a few strings one way and a few the other might cause a problem....

From a strictly scientific point of view, taking a look at what's different might get you results. Nut material is constant over all strings. All strings use the same bridge (or type of, in this case). String size could be a reason. Tension, perhaps.

I don't think string size would be much of a culprit, unless it was just a terribly designed string and completely unfit for the tension. It could be a poor design. I'll eventually be getting an 8-string set of Skip's Circle K strings with a 0.190 low F# string. Skip's strings aren't tapered, so I'll have to make some minor bridge saddle adjustments as well. I might also have my tech replace the ebony nut with graphite, or maybe a piece of brass.

Drilling the hole shouldn't be too tough at all - the holes are already there and the bass' body isn't contoured, so it will lay flat. I'll just need to get a HSS drill bit that will widen the existing holes.

FunkMetalBass · #7 05-20-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

If the E and higher strings are performing normally, I would suggest that it is not anything to do with the bass - nut, bridges, or electronics. Nor do I believe it is a through body affectation. One thing to check is how well-affixed the B and F# bridges are to the body.

From experience I can say that Circle K, La Bella or SIT strings don't suffer sustain differentiation at these gauges. I have no first hand experience with Gary's strings.

Good to know. Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely check the bridge tightness when I get home.

EDIT: Haha, Skip! I didn't even notice it was you.

big90sbasshorns · #8 05-20-2010, 03:48 PM

Just a thought, is your rig designed to actually go that low? That might be the culprit.

FunkMetalBass · #9 05-20-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big90sbasshorns

Just a thought, is your rig designed to actually go that low? That might be the culprit.

Thankfully, yes, it is.

I'm currently running my signal with a crossover at 140hz through a Samson SX2800 stereo power amp then into a Carvin 4x10 and a Carvin 1x18.

Meatrus · #10 05-20-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

I might also have my tech replace the ebony nut with graphite, or maybe a piece of brass.

I'm sure you already knew but just thought I would mention. A different nut material wont give you any different tone/sustain on anything but open notes (even on opens it will be very minor), as soon as you fret a note the nut is taken out of the equation.

knuckle_head · #11 05-20-2010, 06:12 PM

FWIW - My strings do taper

FunkMetalBass · #12 05-20-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatrus

I'm sure you already knew but just thought I would mention. A different nut material wont give you any different tone/sustain on anything but open notes (even on opens it will be very minor), as soon as you fret a note the nut is taken out of the equation.

I know, I've just always felt that ebony, while a hard wood, would not be as strong and durable as either of the other two aforementioned nut materials. If anything, it's for placebo effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

FWIW - My strings do taper

Good to know. That will save me from some some bridge saddle adjustment. On strings like your 0.190, is the eyelet still wider than the string? If I widen the ferrule hole, I'll still need the eyelet to hold it.

knuckle_head · #13 05-20-2010, 06:33 PM

It gets dicey at that point. You can safely widen a hole to 3/16" on a bridge plate. My strings have a short taper so going through body isn't a good option - you'll have full thickness at the break angle point and it will 'dull' the B and F#.

Yours look to be Hipshot bridges, yes? How do you like them?

At 35" you could go thinner than .190 for your F# if you want to.

FunkMetalBass · #14 05-20-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

It gets dicey at that point. You can safely widen a hole to 3/16" on a bridge plate. My strings have a short taper so going through body isn't a good option - you'll have full thickness at the break angle point and it will 'dull' the B and F#.

Yours look to be Hipshot bridges, yes? How do you like them?

At 35" you could go thinner than .190 for your F# if you want to.

Really? I wasn't aware of this. Maybe the issue with my strings is that they are not tapered and thus, sound dull. What's the taper length on your strings? I don't care for a long taper - just enough to get past the saddle is perfect.

I am a huge fan of all Hipshot products - these are no different. The string spacing is a little wider than what I prefer, but there's not much that could have been done about that without getting a custom bridge made. It's not a big enough deal to complain - it's still a comfortable size.

As I said, I currently have a .174 F# string that I find a little bit on the floppy side. I love the tension of my E-string, and your balanced set has a closely-sized E, so I figured that the step up to a .190 would be worth it for tension balance.

knuckle_head · #15 05-20-2010, 09:40 PM

Mine taper just beyond 5/8" to 3/4" or so - minimizing distance from break angle to full thickness. Having full thickness across the saddle might be your issue.

The Hipshot bridges are the same size as the ABM single stringers -I'm a fan too.

My recommendation usually follows your logic - build your set around your preference for E.

JAUQO III-X · #16 05-20-2010, 10:32 PM

How long have the strings been on the bass?

D.A.R.K. · #17 05-20-2010, 11:07 PM

i have a set of gary goodman's strings on a 34" scale 6, low f#
to high g. (a very heart felt thanks to someone awesome for turning me on to these!!

). no issues with sustain or floppiness whatsoever...
the instrument has just been refurbished and i'm still setting it up, but contrary to the op i'm experiencing more tension than i'm used to with gary's strings, as well as sustain for days... and days, and a surprisingly even volume. low f# is a .162, strings are all top loaded, no string through bridge or body. to the op, when installing the strings, did you have gary's directions about installation? it takes a very long time to bring these up to tension. if they were brought up to tension too fast, perhaps some of the windings/ core have been separated, maybe not enough to cause rattle in the string, but enough to disturb the vibration throughout, choking it.

FunkMetalBass · #18 05-21-2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

Mine taper just beyond 5/8" to 3/4" or so - minimizing distance from break angle to full thickness. Having full thickness across the saddle might be your issue.

The Hipshot bridges are the same size as the ABM single stringers -I'm a fan too.

My recommendation usually follows your logic - build your set around your preference for E.

They are pretty nice, although I wish they were just a hair thinner, for any future builds.

I play the E-string most often, and I've just decided over time that it felt to be the best tension. It was kind of an accident choosing the E. What's your reasoning for it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

How long have the strings been on the bass?

About 6 months now, but I've had this issue since I put them on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

i have a set of gary goodman's strings on a 34" scale 6, low f#
to high g. (a very heart felt thanks to someone awesome for turning me on to these!!

). no issues with sustain or floppiness whatsoever...
the instrument has just been refurbished and i'm still setting it up, but contrary to the op i'm experiencing more tension than i'm used to with gary's strings, as well as sustain for days... and days, and a surprisingly even volume. low f# is a .162, strings are all top loaded, no string through bridge or body. to the op, when installing the strings, did you have gary's directions about installation? it takes a very long time to bring these up to tension. if they were brought up to tension too fast, perhaps some of the windings/ core have been separated, maybe not enough to cause rattle in the string, but enough to disturb the vibration throughout, choking it.

I don't remember, to be honest, but that sounds kind of sketchy. Conklin's/SIT's .165 never suggested bringing it up to pitch extra slowly, why would Gary's be so incredibly different?

D.A.R.K. · #19 05-21-2010, 01:00 AM

not sketcy at all really, there's a lot of winding on those strings, with large diameter. looking at my f#, there are no less than 4 layers of windings. could be the core choice as well, round as opposed to hex? i believe dr has you bend the string at a 45 degree angle before cutting for the same reason, so that the windings don't separate from the core.
usually this causes a vibration, or rattle in the string itself, but knowing these strings have a method to be installed correctly i thought i'd bring it up.

Garry Goodman · #20 05-21-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

The title says it all. I'm using it on a JC Custom 35" scale bolt-on, with an ebony nut and single-string bridges. All of the strings, save the B and F#, are strung thru-body. I'm using an Octave4Plus set with a 0.140 B and a 0.174 F#. The strings just die far too quickly and have no sustain compared to the other 6. I don't think it's the pickups, but I'll be replacing those before this year's end with some SGD humbuckers because I hate single coil hum.

Could it be the ebony nut? Could it just be that Gary Goodman's strings aren't the best for this kind of job and I need to head over to CircleK? Could it be the bridge?

This is my bass:

(I apologize if I posted this in the wrong area. Not sure where it would fit best)

"Could it be the ebony nut? Could it just be that Gary Goodman's strings aren't the best for this kind of job and I need to head over to CircleK? Could it be the bridge?"

Your profile says you are located in Phoenix, AZ. 85029
I looked through about 750 bass string orders going back to June 17th 2009 when these string were shipped to you.

You didn't order them with a tapered core. My string winder allows me to hear the strings tuned to pitch at a particular scale length and get a tension readout before they are removed, packaged and shipped. You strings sounded great, with nice sustain.

Why didn't you mention in your post that you have had the Octave4Plus™ strings on your bass since June 2009 ? That certainly would explain any lack of sustain, being on a bass for nearly a year.

I would not believe you waited all this time to put them on the bass now. Why didn't you contact my customer support months ago if you were having a problem ?

I think it could be that you need to buy new strings.