The Low C# string on the Boesendorfer Model 290 piano.

[JAUQO III-X]

Boesendorfer Model 290 "Black keys"


The Low C# string on the Boesendorfer Model 290 piano.

video provided by Garry Goodman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnfcMJwiOHQ

[agreatheight]

That was the coolest thing I have seen / heard in a long time...

Thanks!

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Do they make that C# in flatwound?

[superbassman2000]

wow

[JAUQO III-X]

And that's acoustic.

[Smallmouth_Bass]

It must cost a fortune to re-string a piano! It's a good thing they doen't sweat all over them.

[JAUQO III-X]

The piano itself cost about $170.000.

[barthanatos]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

It must cost a fortune to re-string a piano! It's a good thing they doen't sweat all over them.

Not something you have to do terribly often. And that's probably a $200,000 USD piano anyway, new. If you've got that kinda flow, you probably aren't too concerned about the strings.

Last I was looking into pianos, the Steinway Model D (concert grand) was going for $150k, and that Boesendorfer has an extra eight low strings on it. Beautiful.

edit: I see Jauqo beat me to it.

[Carver]

My favorite piano of all time! Well, that and the Porsche designed Bosendorfer. (Piano is actually my main instrument....bass is 2nd).

[westland]

Oscar Peterson used to travel with one of these Bosendorfer Imperials with the extra octave; I had a chance to hear him play it back in the 1980s at Ann Arbor MI. The extra keys are mostly for extra depth and harmony of the 'upper' strings on the piano. But Peterson played a short 'solo' on just the black keys at the bottom ... it was all growl and roar (but with rhythm). I've since had a chance to play one of these in a store. It's interesting, and I could see it being used in -- say -- gospel. But I hardly use the bottom octave on a regular piano. Plus ... the Bosendorfer is really big (9' I think) ... so you need a lot of room for it. My August Forster 145cm is about all I can fit in my Hong Kong flat.


BTW, if you repeatedly pluck a piano's strings, which are not coated like those on a bass ... expect them to tarnish and turn black pretty quickly.

[Garry Goodman]

Originally Posted by westland

Oscar Peterson used to travel with one of these Bosendorfer Imperials with the extra octave; I had a chance to hear him play it back in the 1980s at Ann Arbor MI. The extra keys are mostly for extra depth and harmony of the 'upper' strings on the piano. But Peterson played a short 'solo' on just the black keys at the bottom ... it was all growl and roar (but with rhythm). I've since had a chance to play one of these in a store. It's interesting, and I could see it being used in -- say -- gospel. But I hardly use the bottom octave on a regular piano. Plus ... the Bosendorfer is really big (9' I think) ... so you need a lot of room for it. My August Forster 145cm is about all I can fit in my Hong Kong flat.


BTW, if you repeatedly pluck a piano's strings, which are not coated like those on a base ... expect them to tarnish and turn black pretty quickly.

Bosendorfer(Boosendorfer) originally added the black keys for pipe organists switching to piano and wanting access to those lowest pedal notes.. They are the notes found on a pipe organ pedal board.Pipe organists have always known these notes were audible and functional.Oscar Peterson knew what he was doing! C0,what a note!

[Bassic83]

I used to play in LA a lot, and on one demo session I did, we recorded at Mad Hatter. I was playing piano on that gig (my pre-bass days), and I went downstairs and asked Chick if I could use his Bosendorfer for one track. He graciously let me, and when I got in the "Big Room", I noticed that it had a flip-top cover on the left side. I flipped it over, and it had an extra five keys! I used them, too! Pure thunder! It was awesome!!!

[Smallmouth_Bass]

How do professional pianists and double bass players (violin, viola, cello, etc...) afford such expensive instruments? At $170K, that's like a mortgage!

And we often scoff at our boutique electrics at $3000 - 6000.

[elros]

Very cool.

It sounds to me as if the strings are really long, but the hammer is positioned about the same as on the other strings. There are a lot of harmonics in the early attack phase of these low strings.
I wonder how it would sound with the hammer hitting a bit farther from the end of the string? I imagine it'd have a rounder sound.... perhaps different harmonics would ring out?

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by elros

Very cool.

It sounds to me as if the strings are really long, but the hammer is positioned about the same as on the other strings. There are a lot of harmonics in the early attack phase of these low strings.
I wonder how it would sound with the hammer hitting a bit farther from the end of the string? I imagine it'd have a rounder sound.... perhaps different harmonics would ring out?

It sounds kind of like that to me too, although that may be due in part to the recording.

Anyway, that brings me to my question. Jauqo, how's the low end on that piano in person? I've always found pianos to be a little lacking in that department, partly due to the hammer position, partly due to its hardness, and partly due to the instrument's resonance. So how does this piano work out?

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by lemur821

Jauqo, how's the low end on that piano in person? I've always found pianos to be a little lacking in that department, partly due to the hammer position, partly due to its hardness, and partly due to the instrument's resonance. So how does this piano work out?

I have not seen that particular Boesendorfer model(290)in person but one thing I know of all the Boesendorfer's I have played and heard aside from some of the greatest quality that goes into a Boesendorfer is the fact that it was originally conceived to go all the way down to Low C(The lowest note on the Boesendorfer)and still maintain a strong emphasis on low clarity continuity.

again I have not seen that particular model but since Garry Goodman provided the footage,he may be better to answer your question.

It was very kool that the Boesendorfer people allowed Garry to even video clip the piano for they are usually very secretive and Leary about people poking around,but their kool with Garry and obviously didn't mind,so to get this type of footage is in deed rare.

[barthanatos]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

How do professional pianists and double bass players (violin, viola, cello, etc...) afford such expensive instruments? At $170K, that's like a mortgage!

And we offen scoff at our boutique electrics at $3000 - 6000.

I imagine that most don't. Of course players like Elton John could afford them, but you see them more often owned by concert halls, recording studios, wealthy patrons, or megachurches. I've seen some public high schools that have concert grands (no Steinways or Boesendorfers, though), and the church I attend has a concert grand (but it's a Kawai).

Also, people talk about Fender Precisions (the old ones) going up in value, so that the money can always be had back from them. Pianos of this quality exhibit the same tendency.

[Lokire]

I would imagine some do it the same way people buy a car or house. Take out a loan and make payments on it. Just my guess. I know some of the higher end classical instrument shops offer rent to own programs. Where you keep making payments untill it's payed off.

Just my guess. In comparison to classical instruments (Double basses, violins, grand pianos), even the most expensive boutique bass guitars are cheap!

[Lorenzini]

I played an 80 year old Bosendorfer with a C0 and it's very playable. Very clear.

Very cool

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

How do professional pianists and double bass players (violin, viola, cello, etc...) afford such expensive instruments? At $170K, that's like a mortgage!

And we often scoff at our boutique electrics at $3000 - 6000.

Like a Mortgage! Correct answer.

When restoring an Old Double Bass and thinking of a Low C extension the first thing I do is evaulate the Low E string fundamental. If it has a pure thick tone and not full of mostly overtones like that Piano clip was, then we go for the C. If it has more overtones than fundamental on the open note, then we leave it as a standard 4-string. Another test is de-tuning it to C to get an idea of the tone. The added length of course (about a foot!) will add depth and tension but de-tuning will give you a good idea in advance.

On an EB/BG, I can't see going below B. The note speaks so slow, by the time the nose bleed seats hear it, the Band or Singer is on the next tune!.. Lol.. No, really.. in all my 20 years as a professional Bassist and only having a 5er my last couple of years, I can't see getting re-hired if I walked in with a fretted piano of some sort going down to F# or C#. I think the B note on a regular A string (above the low E!) has a deeper and more audible fundamental note than any F# or C# I have heard.

But, that's just me..