Need help for Low F tuning...

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by Warlock626

Ixrlamp, I have a Carvin Icon5 and can be either fed string-thru and/or top-load. By any chance you know what grade shall I get for the sand paper trick? I don't know what grade to get so it can be easier on my graphite nut.

Definitely top load those strings.

220 grit should be fine. You're working with a fairly hard material that will take a little bit to file away.

[Warlock626]

Now they tell me the new tuning is a whole step lower to low D#. Shall I go even go higher on thicker gauges? or tune my 4-string to D#,G#,D#,G# by lower the E and A a half step down, and D and G a half step up?

[ixlramp]

Haha ... it's up to you. Octave down D# is extreme but possible.

[Waster]

All I can say is... you guys must rock!

[hoketus]

I did the math using this string tension calculator:
http://www.bangzero.org/stringtension/

Drop F or Eb is totally possible, though the tensions will be slightly lower. You will need to mix & match a custom string set. I suggest you order singles from Conklin or La Bella.


Average string tensions in standard tuning (35" scale length):

G2 (0.45) = 44 lbs
D2 (0.65) = 52 lbs
A1 (0.85) = 46 lbs
E1 (.105) = 35 lbs
B0 (.130) = 26 lbs

Total: 204 lbs


Gauges adjusted; I tried to best approximate the tensions for Drop Eb tuning. These gauges should work fine for Drop F as well:

Eb2 (0.60) = 40lbs
Ab1 (0.85) = 41 lbs
Eb1 (.115) = 36 lbs
Bb0 (.165) = 32 lbs
Eb0 (.200) = 18 lbs

Total: 168 lbs

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by hoketus

Eb0 (.200) = 18 lbs

I'm sure that 18 pounds value is an error. See the CKS tension chart http://circlekstrings.com/CKSIMAGES/...nsionChart.pdf that goes up to a .254 gauge. That gives 33.1 pounds for .200 at D#.

The CKS recommended minimum tension for good tone and avoid excessive flop is 30 pounds so it needs to be at least a .190. The .190 has one fewer layers of wrap wire so will be more flexible: more chance of intonating it on a standard bass.

For an octave down tuning it's better to use a 5 string tuned D#G#D#G#C# because they usually have a larger range of intonation adjustment, are designed for lower tunings, have more range so you retain some of the higher notes, and have more mass and a stiffer neck which will improve the tone.

[Warlock626]

I'm currently using CKS .182-.049 and its 33 lbs across the neck and its sloppy, but has a nice tone. I might give it a chance and just increased it a bit.

[hoketus]

Originally Posted by ixlramp

I'm sure that 18 pounds value is an error. See the CKS tension chart http://circlekstrings.com/CKSIMAGES/...nsionChart.pdf that goes up to a .254 gauge. That gives 33.1 pounds for .200 at D#.

The CKS recommended minimum tension for good tone and no flop is 30 pounds so it needs to be at least a .190. The .190 has one fewer layers of wrap wire so will be more flexible: more chance of intonating it on a standard bass.

Of course the string tension calculator applet doesn't take into consideration many variables that can affect tension (the string core, wrapping method). So, it's largely an approximation. 33 lbs though! I have a hard time believing it, but very impressive if that's the case.

Also, quite unreal that Circle K makes up to a .254 gauge string. I wasn't aware anything over .200 existed at all.

[hoketus]

Originally Posted by Warlock626

I'm currently using CKS .182-.049 and its 33 lbs across the neck and its sloppy, but has a nice tone. I might give it a chance and just increased it a bit.

What tuning are you in?

33 lbs is actually pretty taught for such an extreme low tuning. About as much tension as an average 'low B'. You can of course up those gauges if you like, though. Experiment.

[Warlock626]

As of now, its on drop G# with a low D# on my 5-string Carvin Icon 5. Even with the .182 its uncomfortable floppy. I'm currently using my 4-string bass matching the middle D#,G#,D#,G# with my band. Previously it was drop A# with a low F using the same 5-string.

[ixlramp]

.182 at D# is 27.5 pounds, too loose, CKS recommended minimum for good tone is 30 pounds (extra light tension) need bigger strings At least .190 .142 .094 .070 .051 for D#G#D#G#C#.

[hoketus]

Originally Posted by Warlock626

As of now, its on drop G# with a low D# on my 5-string Carvin Icon 5. Even with the .182 its uncomfortable floppy. I'm currently using my 4-string bass matching the middle D#,G#,D#,G# with my band. Previously it was drop A# with a low F using the same 5-string.

So, D# a octave and a semitone below the regular open E?

.182 might not do it, then. I know players like Yves Carbonne and Jean Baudin use a .200 at least for their low C# string. You can get a string of this size from Conklin. Or even heavier gauges from Circle K.

Post some clips when you have your setup together. I'd be interested in hearing.

[hoketus]

Originally Posted by ixlramp

.182 at D# is 27.5 pounds, too loose, CKS recommended minimum for good tone is 30 pounds (extra light tension) need bigger strings At least .190 .142 .094 .070 .051 for D#G#D#G#C#.

I'd go even heavier. Maybe something like .210 .165 .105 . 85. .65

Note that the 3 highest strings are only a 1/2 step below standard tuning. So, you can get away with regular E, A, D gauges. The low strings of course will need to be much heavier. This should equate to roughly 200 lbs of tension (average for a 5 string in standard).

[Warlock626]

I like your idea Hoketus, and I will post some vids on my YouTube channel.