Need more "Mwah" from my Stingray Fretless!

[Crabby]

I love my fretless Ray but am trying to bring out some more mwah from her. I am using EB Slinkys as I loove them on my fretted basses and they seem to provide plenty of mwah and growl on my fretless jazz bass. Of course the Jazz bass has that one single coil placed farther back that just sings but the Stingray's single humbucker should be able to give me a similar tone.

Would going from the Slinkys to a full on stainless string make much of a difference? Or is there another nickle string that will bring out more of that mwah tone I'm after?

[groooooove]

very low action that sounds like annoying buzz if you play unplugged can also create growl in a fretless. this is exactly how jaco's bass was setup- it buzzed up and down the neck. (edit- and the amp never picked it up.)

i've found higher tension to also help. for me, that comes from a longer scale. you could try heavier strings, though. i'd also recommend stainless.

[Slowgypsy]

Of course, everyone has a different definition or perception of sound. And even though a type of sound may be called something standard.... such as mwaaah.... it's heard differently by different folks. That said, my fretless Stingray has all the "mwaaah" sound I'm looking for. The instrument you have is certainly capable of producing it. So two factors would help push it more in that direction. Left and right hand technique plays a big part, huge part actually. And setup. My Stingray has almost no relief in the neck, and the action is lower than on my fretted instruments. Strings, well I like very low tension strings... allows my fretting hand to press ever so slightly on the fret board... less pressing into the fret board gives me the most "mwaah" sound. Just my $.02

[Crabby]

Good info thanks. I recently messed with my neck relief and string height and don't think I improved anything. i was able to make the string height more uniform from top to bottom by taking out some relief but the buzzing sound I was able to get by lowering the action came through the amp as dead sounding strings as opposed to mwah. I am sure that setting the bass up to find that sweet spot will really help but i didn't find it with my own tweaking and didn't want to take anything to extremes. its good to hear that others can get some mwah out of their fretless Ray. I still wonder if changing my strings will make a noticeable difference or is it all in the setup???

[Slowgypsy]

As these things go, it's just not one magical thing that changes everything. Playing technique, instrument, setup, strings. They all play an important role. Changing strings will definitely change something. I actually use TI Jazz Flats and get all the mwaah sound I need. Also tried Circle K strings (roundwound) and really liked those as well. Again, I've found that the lower the action, the more effortlessly a mwaah sound is generated as my fretting hand can apply less pressure to get the string to the fretboard. Is this your first fretless instrument?

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Crabby

Good info thanks. I recently messed with my neck relief and string height and don't think I improved anything. i was able to make the string height more uniform from top to bottom by taking out some relief but the buzzing sound I was able to get by lowering the action came through the amp as dead sounding strings as opposed to mwah. I am sure that setting the bass up to find that sweet spot will really help but i didn't find it with my own tweaking and didn't want to take anything to extremes. its good to hear that others can get some mwah out of their fretless Ray. I still wonder if changing my strings will make a noticeable difference or is it all in the setup???

This is actually a case where the fingerboard material _does_ make a difference. On bare wood like rosewood or even ebony, the muaahh is going to be pretty muted no matter what you do. Roundwounds and plucking further up towards the neck will help bring it out a little bit, but if you really want a lot of whine, some kind of hard plastic finish on the fingerboard will really do it.

I.e. I epoxied the fingerboard on my old gibson tobias and that REALLY made it into a muaah monster. In fact, there was so much it was almost objectionable.

I'm one of those wierd guys who likes less muaah and doesn't play harmonics, etc., on the FL so I prefer just bare wood (gives a fretted tone without the thud and clank of actual frets).

But if you really need muaah, you might consider getting a finish put on your fingerboard, like a hard epoxy. IIRC, that's part of how Jaco got his signature tone. And it DEFINITELY worked on my old tobias....

LS

[Slowgypsy]

Originally Posted by unclejane

This is actually a case where the fingerboard material _does_ make a difference. On bare wood like rosewood or even ebony, the muaahh is going to be pretty muted no matter what you do. Roundwounds and plucking further up towards the neck will help bring it out a little bit, but if you really want a lot of whine, some kind of hard plastic finish on the fingerboard will really do it.

I.e. I epoxied the fingerboard on my old gibson tobias and that REALLY made it into a muaah monster. In fact, there was so much it was almost objectionable.

I'm one of those wierd guys who likes less muaah and doesn't play harmonics, etc., on the FL so I prefer just bare wood (gives a fretted tone without the thud and clank of actual frets).

But if you really need muaah, you might consider getting a finish put on your fingerboard, like a hard epoxy. IIRC, that's part of how Jaco got his signature tone. And it DEFINITELY worked on my old tobias....

LS

Actually, I somewhat disagree. The OP's instrument probably has a Pau Ferro fret board. And it's plenty dense to get the mwaah sound... Pino was certainly able to get it. I'm no Pino but my fretless Stingray has as much fretless sound as I want. I do agree that coating the fretboard will certainly change the tone of the instrument. Some folks prefer the change, some don't. But simply coating the fretboard is not going to be that magic bullet that fixes everything.

[Jazzfretless]

I have been using D'Addario Half Rounds on my fretless since 1987 and LOVE the variety of sounds I can coax from them.
When I moved to this area and went to the music store to order a set, the guy behind the counter thought I was confused - he'd never heard of them.
They're the only strings I've ever used on my fretless because they perform flawlessly.
I also agree with Slowgypsy above, there is also some alteration of technique when you want the more expressive "fretless" sound.
The last thing I require when playing to my own satisfaction is a really good amp sound. It makes all the difference in the world whether I like the feel and sound of my bass itself.

[bass12]

I was never able to get what I thought was a good fretless tone out of my Stingray, so I sold it!

[BigOldHarry]

yeah, fretless Rays have a sound - it's not just the big Jaco Mwah sound. More like the Pino sound - a fine sound, but not the same. If you don't dig it, get a different bass.

[FromTheBassMent]

Yup, I agree that my Stingray 5 HP fretless has a sound of its own, and that sound is not Jaco sound. As others have stated, dead-low action is the starting point. I have never used stainless rounds on mine... can get all of the mwah and warmth and growl I need with a set of DR Sunbeams.

That fingerboard is not pao ferro, it's good old fashioned rosewood. That may or may not have anything to do with how much mwah the bass is capable of producing.

If I wanted more of that sound, I would not switch basses, as I love the overall tone and playability of my Ray. I would probably take the neck off and send it to someone who specializes in laying down an epoxy layer on fretless fingerboards.

[Crabby]

Well the fingerboard on bass is Pau Ferro and this is not my first fretless. I currently own a MIM Jazz fretless with Dimarzio Model J's and the rosewood board and really dead Slinky's produce a ton of jaco like mwah tone simply by favoring the bridge pickup. This bass really snarls and mwah's unplugged and the action is not obscenely low.

The Ray, has such a nicer feeling neck, and can be set up with much lower action but the I haven't been able to coax that distinctive sound from it yet. The bass sounds fantastic in a band mix and as I'm a Stingray nut, its a great transition from a fretted Ray in many ways. I just need to coax more of a mwah tone from her. I have read a fair bit about the epoxy treatment but it is expensive and would like to avoid modding my bass.

I have noticed that turning the bass control a little lower then the mid point and boosting the mids up all the way on the bass does get me closer. I was hoping that perhaps going from the Slinkys to a stainless string might make a big difference but it sounds like this might be a pretty minor change.

[Timmay on bass]

EB Slinky strings and a lot of SS roundwound strings tend to have less midrange, which is where you get the mwah sound. When I switched to GHS Presurewound, it made quite a difference!

[larryelwood]

I have a stingray fretless w/ Pao Ferro Board and it's very picky about strings. In fact out of DR, Rotosound, Daddario and GHS, the only set of strings to get a really nice Mwah was D'addario prosteels light guage .45-105. I spent a couple hundred bucks trying to find the right strings to bring out the Mwah. D'addario is the best at least for my EB fretless.

[bassybill]

I think fingerboard surface will definitely have an effect.

I'm sure I remember reading an interview with Pino back when he was with Paul Young in about 1985 and he was talking about how he'd switched to a Status graphite neck on his fretless Stingray. There's certainly tons of mwah in the Pino tone on those recordings.

[bassybill]

I wasn't dreaming things, by the look of it. This is from '83...

YouTube - Paul Young - Come Back And Stay TOTP.m2ts

Some later videos show Pino with a regular fretless Ray by the time of the second album in 1985, though. And the tone of the bass is somewhat different on that album. Or it might have had something to do with an endorsement deal, maybe? It was just about the time he was getting really widely known as a top player.

[AnonymousInvent]

I agree with the above statements about the material of the fingerboard making a difference, in addition to technique, strings etc. Epoxy or graphite fingerboards generally have more mwah in my experience.