New strings can flip your views of amplification upside-down

naturalkinds · #1 11-28-2009, 10:56 PM

So I have exclusively used DR stainless steel Lo-Riders for the past year, or so. This is right around the time I settled on an amplification setup with which I was happy. Fender MIA Standard Jazz into an Aguilar DB 750 and a pair of GS 112s.

Today, I decided to switch up my strings to the nickel Lo-Riders. My tech recommended them as a nice, mellower, more mid-pronounced alternative to the strings I was already using. He said I could expect less fret noise, too, which would be a welcome addition.

Plugged in with the new string setup and I sounded awful. Muddy, inarticulate, muffled. It sounded terrible. I played with some of the EQ functions on my amp, and the passive tone knob but couldn't find anything that sounded good to my ear.

My smaller TecAmp combo was more hospitable. I set all the controls at noon -- a noticeable change from my darker EQ settings before -- and the bass sounded a little more lively. But still not great. The combo still had cardboard box vibes.

So what's the moral? Well, this has certainly turned my philosophy on amps upside down. Amps, you say? Yep. I figure that an amplification setup is better thought as an element in a system, and not an isolated system in its own right. I always thought of it as 'my sound': that hallmark bit of technology that plays a central part in making me sound like me. Yet consider.

- Changing strings made more of a difference to my sound through the amplifier than switching amplifiers or cabinets ever did. (With exceptions for really trashy pieces of gear.)

- Some amps do not flatter certain input signals. In my case, it was too much of a good thing to have a mellower string on my J-bass play into my mellow Aguilar setup. It just sounded ICKY.

will33 · #2 11-28-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

- Changing strings made more of a difference to my sound through the amplifier than switching amplifiers or cabinets ever did. (With exceptions for really trashy pieces of gear.)

This is usually the cheapest, and best solution when folks say "my rig lacks definition" or "it used to be crisp and clear and now it's muddy/boxy". Always check the obvious first.

You'd be amazed sometimes what a different tone it can throw...different raw product to work with.

rpsands · #3 11-28-2009, 11:36 PM

Strings are the #2 contributor to tone IMHO, unless you use very drastic eq

**Kelly Lee** · #4 11-29-2009, 02:01 AM

I'll let this thread ride here in Amps as long as it doesn't become a string discussion.

playerunk · #5 11-29-2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Strings are the #2 contributor to tone IMHO, unless you use very drastic eq

and probably one of the cheapest to change if something is not liked..

as for the aguilar amp..i thought anything could sound good trough it

Big Benner · #6 11-29-2009, 05:32 AM

My sound is my bass, my strings and my fingers. I've always thought of my amp (and speakers) to be a way of getting that sound to be louder. When I choose my SWR SM900 amp and Yorkville 2x10 and 1x15 speaker cabs, I felt that they were great at taking my original sound and getting it louder without a lot of colouration.

Another way I look at - when I'm playing a bar/club that has PA support, my amp becomes essentially a monitor for me and the band to hear myself. My sound come from my bass, strings and fingers through the DI.

Crabby · #7 11-29-2009, 12:26 PM

Yeah but there is something about a well eq'd quality bass rig that gives me goosebumps!

meatwad · #8 11-29-2009, 03:21 PM

Strings can definitely be a MAJOR contributor to any bass/amp combination's tone. A good bass with a nice set of strings can sound great through even a mediocre amp, whereas a crappy bass and dead strings will make even the best amp sound, well... crappy.

My Ampeg-CL/2x410 cabs sounds bright and punchy with my StingRay w/ fresh roundwounds, but it turns into a mellow machine by plugging in my Tobias fretless with 10 year old roundwounds. Both basses are active with humbuckers, so the Ampeg reacts similarly to both bass' output, but still sounds completely bipolar between the two. True, still two almost completely different basses, but I still think their strings are a larger contributor to how my amp sounds in comparison.

**woolysock** · #9 11-29-2009, 04:14 PM

Yes, changing strings is the least expensive way of changing your tone...

On the other hand, I'm playing old DR nickel-wound Low Riders on a 62 ri jazz bass into one or two Berg HT112ER cabs and the sound is bright and clear. What's the difference? An Aguilar AG500 amp with eq set flat.

Almost embarrassed to say it, but the other (expensive) thing that's clarified my tone is an Analysis Plus Bass Oval cable. It creates a noticeable difference in focus, clarity and punch.

naturalkinds · #10 11-29-2009, 05:12 PM

Woolysock: Very interesting that you report having a bright sound from that setup. We're using similar gear, but that just goes to show how subtle and drastic differences in gear (technique obviously included) influence the sound we get out of our amps.

groooooove · #11 11-29-2009, 05:25 PM

i'd blame the new strings.. not the amp..

**woolysock** · #12 11-29-2009, 05:31 PM

I think the AG500 is significantly brighter by nature than the DB750.
Must say I quite like the DR Nickel Low Riders too.
Seeing as you are in T.O. you might drop into Club Bass and a/b cables some day.
I used to find my 62 ri a little muddy sounding w both pups on and all kinds of different strings. But not any more...

naturalkinds · #13 11-29-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

i'd blame the new strings.. not the amp..

I guess my point is that it doesn't really make sense to blame either in isolation from one another. But I'm in general more sympathetic to the idea that the strings are what are making me primarily unhappy, not the sweet amp.

**woolysock** · #14 11-29-2009, 06:11 PM

Sure, it's just odd that DR nickel-wound Low Riders seems to be gaining popularity around here. I know a few players who have switched over. And the guy who runs the bass department at L&M is high on them too... I find they give a strong, solid fundamental and still have an edge to them. I think I'm more drawn to the greater tension of Low Riders as opposed to High Beams than I am to the nickel as opposed to stainless steel. Gotta run to a gig. Later...

hrgiger · #15 11-30-2009, 12:19 PM

Exactly. I think a lot of guys laugh about their "crappy" amps they had "back in the day" when they first started playing, and the awful tone they had. But they forget that a lot of guys when they first start playing don't realize that you don't just change bass strings when they break, and that 2 or more year old strings were the real culprit, not the amp!

Groove Doctor · #16 12-01-2009, 11:09 AM

Nice thread - my first bass used to sound like a banjo when I replaced the strings.

Each component of your setup affects the others - I'm guessing your strings don't match ie you've moved away from the "sweet spot" of your sound. Maybe give it a month for your ears to adjust, and if you're still not happy then you haven't lost too much cash. Stainless steel strings just have that certain 'zing' to them though that modern amps really lap up.

Fuzzbass · #17 12-01-2009, 12:10 PM

Certainly, strings make a tremendous difference in tone. I also agree that strings should be matched to the gear that you own: a set of strings that sounds great on one bass might not work well with another. Amp and speakers can also be factors, depending on what they are and how much you tweak EQ.

Playability should be considered in that tension and flexibility can vary dramatically between different string sets. F'r instance low tension strings can prevent me from digging in as much as I want to when banging out hard rock... unless I raise the action, but that affects playability in a different way. Regarding this thread: I don't know if there's a significant difference in feel between nickel vs. steel Lo Riders, but I was speaking in general, e.g. I do notice a difference in feel between Lo Riders and Hi Beams, and blue versus black label Sadowsky strings.

**Kelly Lee** · #18 12-02-2009, 12:52 AM

Moved to Strings.

JohnnyB53 · #19 12-02-2009, 02:33 AM

When you make a dramatic swap in strings, like from stainless to pure nickel or to flatwounds, it changes the way the string disturbs the pickups' magnetic fields. Pure nickel wraps and flatwounds present more magnetic material within the pickups' range than roundwound stainless.

Therefore you can't fix it all by re-EQ-ing your amp. You need to adjust pickup height to match the string's influence on the magnetic field. It can't be fixed downstream. Lower the bass end of your pickups, see what you get, and then adjust gain and EQ on your amp.

meatwad · #20 12-04-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Certainly, strings make a tremendous difference in tone. I also agree that strings should be matched to the gear that you own: a set of strings that sounds great on one bass might not work well with another...

Okay, since this got moved from AMPS to STRINGS, I'll talk strings. To reflect the post I quoted above, there is no doubt some strings work better with some basses. IME, it is -

1. Fender Precision and Jazz Basses - Rotosound SS
2. Ibanez Soundgear 890 - DR High Beams
3. StingRay - D'Addario XL

If I ever tried DRs on my Fenders, they just didn't sound or feel right. Same with Rotos on my 'Ray, plus they were chewing the crap out of my frets.