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  #1  
Old 10-15-2010, 01:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Newbie question re flatwounds and semi-acoustic bass

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First post - go easy on me.

So: confession time; I'm a guitarist, not really a bass player. But I dabble a little in the dark side and I'm looking for advice about flatwound strings for a vintage Australian semi-acoustic bass I own, a Maton Master Sound MS1100 http://www.maton.com.au/index.php?op...el_code=MS1100.

It was made in 1965 or 1966 and it really is rather lovely. It has two single-coil pickups, its 32 inch scale, and it's currently strung with D'Addario XL nickelwound light gauge (45 - 100) roundwounds. This is just plain wrong! Thin, thin, thin! It could sound really nice but it doesn't.

I need advice. I want this bass to sound 60s authentic. I'm wanting a round, fat, solid tone, somewhere between Jamerson and early McCartney. I've been researching flatwound strings but I'm lost amongst the options: flatwound, tapewound, coated, etc, etc. I don't even know what gauge I should get. I'm comfortable playing high tension strings (my acoustic guitars are strung with medium gauge 13-56) but I don't know if this bass is up to an equivalent tension. Would a medium gauge set (say 50 to 105) be appropriate?

For reference: I play using a traditional two finger style. I'm not the world's greatest bassist. I'm wanting to use this bass for recording purposes only, DI'd into my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, using Propellerhead Record as my sequencer and the Line 6 bass models that Record comes with (they are, frankly, fairly ordinary). I mainly write music that could best be described as retro electronica with a heavy dose of funk, with a side order of traditional British folk (go figure!)

Look, just tell me what strings I should buy, and I'll buy them. Then I'll come back and complain that you were full of the proverbial! No, really, help!

Cheers!
  #2  
Old 10-17-2010, 08:58 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Bump - was it something I said (coughguitaristcough), or can't anybody help me?
  #3  
Old 10-17-2010, 09:09 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Texas
My son put tape wounds on his acoustic with great results. Would try to stay with a low to med tension string, maybe T-I jazz flats if you wanted a metal sting.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2010, 02:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Pyramids are about as smooth and warm sounding as you can get - either the "Gold" flatwounds or the "Black" tapewounds. Golds were at one time the factory-supplied strings for the Hofner violin bass. The Blacks seem to me to have lower tension, and I think they feel wonderful to play.

Cheaper and more readily available strings for the shortlist: GHS precision flats, Rotosound Tru-bass tapewounds. Personally I find the TI Jazz flats a little too bright. But maybe that's just me.
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  #5  
Old 10-29-2010, 08:10 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Thanks for the suggestions - I gave it a fair amount of thought and then went for the unexpected .

I gave some more thought about what I actually play and the music I make, and realised that while I love the sixties sound of Jamerson et al, and the Maton Master Sound is certainly capable of something approaching that (though McCartney is easier to get, the MS being semi-acoustic), my music is retro-inspired, but not slavishly so. So I took a punt on (gasp!) DA Chromes.

And, to echo the thread that made me think about trying them out: "Holy Cr@p!"

In my original post I said the MS sounded "thin, thin, thin." That was with fairly new DA XL 45-100 roundwounds. I really like these strings on my Spector Legend 4 - bright, crisp, piano-like; a very modern sound that works well for some of my stuff.

But on the MS they were just plain awful, sort of plunky, with minimal sustain and a total lack of (for want of a better word) balls. I honestly wondered if the MS was just a nasty piece of 60s crap luthiery, or whether the damage to the sound board (see below) was terminal. It played fairly nicely, but it sounded terrible.

Put the Chromes on: instant grin. Played a bit more - bigger grin. Maybe it's because the pups were designed at a time when flatwounds were the only game in town, but suddenly the sound had what I can only call authority. It's still surprisingly bright for flatwounds, but the sound has real grunt. I'm getting more sustain (not what I expected), but the initial attack is a punch to the abdomen. For the first time this bass sounds good. Not perfect, but good.

I was given this bass about 30 years ago . For most of that time it has sat in my closet, unplayed. When I first got it it had a fairly major problem - the bridge had punched through the soundboard, the bass was unplayable, (no, really?) and I was playing different music and fixing it didn't seem a priority. I had other basses.

Eventually after about 10 years I had a rough repair done; the repairer placed a block under the bridge, and it's not bad at all. Obviously not ideal, but quite playable. The repairer told me that in the 70s he saw a few MS basses with exactly the same issue. According to him Maton had underestimated the stresses on the soundboard and had not provided adequate bracing for the top. I was poor; the repair worked. I put it back in the closet and went on playing my other basses, when I wasn't playing guitar. I'd pull it out occasionally, and then I'd put it back.

But putting the Chromes on has made me realise that this bass could sound really good. If it sounds like this in the condition that it is in, how might it sound with a really good rebuild?

I'm going to find out! Back in 2008 I had a complete re-fret and set-up on my 1983 Martin D-28 acoustic guitar. The wizard who revitalised my Martin is a guy named Kevin, who runs Nitrovane Guitars here in Perth, Western Australia http://www.nitrovaneguitars.com.au/index.html.

If you are ever in WA and you need guitar or bass repairs or set-up, Kevin is the man (he's got a waiting list , and he's not cheap - the Martin rebuild cost me almost as much as I paid for the guitar new; it was worth every penny).

My Martin is sooooooooo much nicer to play since Kevin did his magic. The intonation is perfect - not just good, perfect. In any key; try to find a Martin that you can say that about. The tone is far better than it's ever been, and the neck is a joy. Kevin has a pretty impressive line-up of clients, including Cliff Richard, Hank Marvin, Cat Stevens, Michael Vdelli, Eskimo Joe, Motor Ace, Diesel, Tony Gibbs (my former bass teacher), Ian Moss, and a bunch of other people I respect.

So - time to turn this bass into what it can be. It needs some serious work. I figure it needs:

THE CHEAP STUFF:
a fret polish (the frets are fine, just need a little TLC)
truss-rod and nut adjustment.
Clean all electrical components (all the knobs and switches need cleaning, as they click, and/or grind in use).
Pickup adjustment: the bridge pup is really weak in comparison to the neck pup.
Identify and rectify some extraneous rattles, buzzes and squeaks. (The G machine head was a real problem - 30 year-old Blu-Tack stops it rattling, but there's got to be a better way . The body buzzes might end up in "THE EXPENSIVE STUFF" category but I hope not.

THE EXPENSIVE STUFF:
a sound-board reinforcement; replace the block with proper bracing. (this could be expensive).
Bridge set up and intonation adjustment (at the moment the action is really high - not unplayably so, but not anything that you'd want to play; the intonation is not bad). This could be expensive too, since the bridge appears to be at its lowest possible adjustment. Hopefully this can be fixed with the soundboard repair, as the soundboard seems to be somewhat distorted around the original repair area.

I have no intention of selling this bass, nor do I intend to mess with the finish. It's a 60s bass and it's got what you would expect in the way of wear and tear. That's fine with me. The lacquer is crazed. Somebody was obviously into big belt buckles. It's lived without a case for 30 years. But I intend to rebuild this bass into a working example of fine Australian luthiery.

I'll report back when it's finished. Since Kevin is booked out until January 2011, it might be some time before I get the MS back to full functionality. I'm very hopeful that within 6 months or so I'll be playing this golden oldie, and enjoying it as much as I do my Kevin-enhanced D28.

Cheers!
  #6  
Old 11-02-2010, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
I have no intention of selling this bass

"I have no intention of selling this bass.."

If you ever want to sell this bass, let me know! I'm back in Perth occasionally.

FYI, this is the bass that Brian Hooper used to play with the Beasts of Bourbon and Kim Salmon & Surrealists.

Richie
  #7  
Old 11-04-2010, 12:13 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Thanks for the expression of interest, but I really won't be selling. I've made too many mistakes like that in the past (late 60s P-bass, mid-70s Rick 4001, L-series Fender Jaguar guitar, etc. What was I thinking!?)

Bit of an update on the rebuild: I contacted Kevin @ Nitrovane Guitars, and he says he's happy to do the work in early 2011, and thinks it's all doable. We haven't discussed cost, but I'm sure this is going to be a reasonably expensive exercise. Kevin's work is not cheap, but neither are his results - as I said in my earlier post he has utterly transformed my Martin D28. Im really looking forward to finding out how good this bass could be.

Oh - and I realise that I forgot to say that the Chromes I put on it were the light gauge 45-100s, not the 50-105s I was originally considering. I thought I'd be better off not putting any additional strain on the compromised soundboard, and I think I made the right decision. The light Chromes have a little more tension than the XLs that were on it before, which I'm really enjoying. It feels very solid and it suits my playing style better than the low tension strings.

Cheers!
  #8  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
i've got a jungleburst one of these,the only thing wrong with it is buckle rash on the back,beautiful guitar,very interesting to read suggestions for strings,will definitely follow a few up.
re:brian hooper,i'd heard he had & broke 2 ms1100's!!snapped the necks which are pretty thin admittedly.
there was also a red one on ebay the other day which got passed in at $1700 which also seemed to have suffered the collapsed bridge thing.
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