Question about Low-Tuning in G#

skullofagerman · #1 11-09-2012, 03:22 AM

Hey guys,

I really need some help.

In general I am playing a fender jazz bass (geddy lee model) and I am playing warwick strings black label (135, 105, 85, 65). I play this tuning: Drop C (C-G-C-F)

Now I wanna tune down my bass to G#. I bought a 145#-single string in addition, so that would be the:

145, 135, 105, 85

or maybe

145, 105, 085, 065
(I think that could be an option. Maybe there would be no need of adjusting the neck then??? )

What tuning you would recommend to have a low G#-string??? Drop G#???

The main problem is that the slot for the 145#-string is too small. Would you extend this slot by yourself? Do you have any advice? And would it be a problem to go back to my old tuning -> Drop C (C-G-C-F) / (135, 105, 85, 65) with this bigger slot?

I am very thankful for any help.

Cheers.

C.

Mr_Music90 · #2 11-09-2012, 05:58 AM

Hi there!!

First of all : Getting heavier string gauges is very good. This way, you prevent fret buzz and such.

Secondly : You could keep only the single .145 string for the low G#. I would recommend that you make the slot on the nut a bit wider and / or deeper, depending on how high the string rest from the fretboard.

Third : You can make your tuning G#C#F#C# or GDGC.

MattS · #3 11-09-2012, 06:14 AM

If you're tuning it G#D#G#C#, 145-105-85-65 should work fine, but it won't feel like CGCF 135-105-85-65 (which seems a bit on the thicker side for this tuning, im kinda surprised it doesn't feel tight to you, but if you like how it feels then that's really all that matters). If you use 145-135-105-85 for G#, you'll probably end up with a warp in the neck from the high tension, so i wouldn't recommend that.
For the nut, just get a small set of files preferably one that round or has a rounded edge and concentrate on making the slot wider, try not to file any/so much of the bottom of the slot or it'll lower the action too much. What I do when filing a nut for a thicker string, to be as even as possible just make sure you do equal passes with the file at each side of the slot, you can count them or if you do them quickly just count to a number while you're filing quickly. I hope this makes sense and is helpfu to you. rock on!!!

knuckle_head · #4 11-09-2012, 01:32 PM

A .145 at G# will pull about 32 pounds - a standard E string pulls between 40 and 44 pounds. I highly encourage you to find a string bigger than a .145 for going to G#.

Josh Pelican · #5 11-09-2012, 03:28 PM

You want a .166 for G#(Ab). That's what I used last year and it sounded great. The string tension felt similar to a standard E tuned to D, maybe C#. I wouldn't have gone with anything else after trying that.

ethanbowen666 · #6 11-09-2012, 03:41 PM

why are you tuning a fender bass down to G# in the first place?

ixlramp · #7 11-09-2012, 05:35 PM

Depends what tension you want. Design a custom set of singles using this http://circlekstrings.com/CKSIMAGES/...nsionChart.pdf
A .135 at C has 44 pounds of tension, for drop G# (G# D# G# C#) at that tension you need .174 .112 .086 .063. Pyramid strings of Germany sell big strings like .175 through schneidermusik.de. Also Warwick sell a .175 black label.

El Raro · #8 11-09-2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethanbowen666

why are you tuning a fender bass down to G# in the first place?

Probably playing some variation of djent or hardcore music. A lot of bassists in my area are tuning down to F# to accommodate their 8-string guitarists. To be perfectly honest, tuning that low on a bass makes it virtually inaudible to the audience unless its overdriven/distorted to hell even on a 5-string.

knuckle_head · #9 11-09-2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Raro

Probably playing some variation of djent or hardcore music. A lot of bassists in my area are tuning down to F# to accommodate their 8-string guitarists. To be perfectly honest, tuning that low on a bass makes it virtually inaudible to the audience unless its overdriven/distorted to hell even on a 5-string.

Doesn't have to be inaudible - with proper tension and signal path even a competent PA can carry F# quite well.

ixlramp · #10 11-10-2012, 01:56 AM

CKS sell 'drop tune' sets for any pitch here http://circlekstrings.com/store/stan...4-strings.html. These are designed to have equal tension strings in a drop tuning.

ethanbowen666 · #11 11-14-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

Doesn't have to be inaudible - with proper tension and signal path even a competent PA can carry F# quite well.

Octave below an 8 string F# would literally be about 23 Hz. If you can even hear that low I doubt you'd be able to pick out that frequency at really loud club with a ton of crazy people going wild.

knuckle_head · #12 11-14-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethanbowen666

Octave below an 8 string F# would literally be about 23 Hz. If you can even hear that low I doubt you'd be able to pick out that frequency at really loud club with a ton of crazy people going wild.

Most bass rigs don't produce any or much content under 45 Hz but we seem to be able to distinguish standard E and B on 4 and 5 strings . . . .

Same holds true for notes sub-B. Most bass guitar audio content is the second harmonic (which is one octave above the fundamental used to define the note) and higher - the actual fundamental of a bass note is 10-15% of the sound you hear, the rest being overtones.

As well there is psychoacoustics which picks up where speakers fall short - a phenomenon relied on in cell phones and such.

skullofagerman · #13 11-15-2012, 03:43 AM

First of all, thank you very much for all your answers. I really appreciate this!

I think, it would be the best to buy those strings...

175, 135, 105, 085
G#C#F#C#

and to make sure that everything is well adjusted, I will bring him to the guitar doc here in Berlin to prevent fret buzz, etc.

But I am still really unsure, if these fat strings are fitting in these holes >

and of course the guitar doc would have to enlarge by boring these holes >

The main problem is that I am not sure if there is a way back again to my old tuning/old adjustment, when I have these enlarged holes in the bridge ->
134, 105, 85, 65 (C, G, C, F)

What do you think?

knuckle_head · #14 11-15-2012, 11:28 AM

The holes in your tuning machines are fine - they'll need no altering.

Enlarging the holes in your bridge will not disallow using the original gauges. Enlarge the hole(s) to 3/16" and it will let the string pass unobstructed and still be capable of going back to your original gauges if that's your choice.

I suggest replacing your nut and hanging on to the old one if you are concerned about going back to your original gauges.

EDIT; the .085 is going to be really tight - you'd be better served with a .070 or .075. A .080 puts you over 65 pounds at C#

ixlramp · #15 11-15-2012, 08:50 PM

^ yes. The dark lord strings are designed for F#BEA and the higher strings will get excessively tight in your tuning. Better to buy carefully chosen (using the tension chart) single strings, i think there may be places on ebay where you can buy single Warwick .175s. What is your planned tuning? G#C#F#C#? Drop G# is actually G#D#G#C#. I've had no problems returning to much thinner strings after filing the slot out to .165, the downforce at the nut will centre the string in the valley curve of the slot floor.

skullofagerman · #16 11-16-2012, 02:19 AM

okay, maybe it would be fine to tune to drop G#

-> G#D#G#C#
175, 135, 105 and 70 to avoid that the string is too tight? Did I get that right?

Thx in advance. ;-)

FunkMetalBass · #17 11-16-2012, 06:56 AM

Honestly, even .135 at D# and .105 at G# are really tight, sitting around the 60 and 65 lb marks. You'd be better served to tune to G# standard with that set: G# C# F# B.

The other option is to see if you can buy those strings in singles (I know they exist, but it could be a matter of cost effectiveness). And if you can, try piecing together a set that looks more like this: .175 - .120 - .090 - .065

TheEmptyCell · #18 11-16-2012, 07:32 AM

Order a set from Circle K. Skip is even trying to lend a hand in this thread. His prices are excellent, the strings sound amazing, and they can basically tell you exactly what set you need to get the best playability in your chosen tuning.

That all said, I think a 34" scale bass tuned that low is going to be somewhat indistinguishable when playing the lowest notes. But, I'm assuming you're playing djent or whatever the newest form of metal is where the guitar is playing in the bass range and you're just root-noting along.

ixlramp · #19 11-17-2012, 04:19 PM

skullofagerman, how's it going, need more help?
Warwick have no gauges between .145 and .175, and that .175 is very expensive and hard to find as a single, i would recommend Pyramid or Circle K Strings instead for more choice.
Pyramid sell .145 .150 .160 .170 .175 steel roundwounds here http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/advan...anufacturers/1
If you're concerned about going as big as .175 for the low G# it's fine to use something thinner, just as long as you exceed 30 pounds of tension (extra light tension). So a .150 would be okay as long as you play it gently, it will be at a low tension and a little floppy but just tight enough for good tone. This way you won't have to drill out the hole in the bridge quite so much. Better to start with a smaller gauge and gradually increase it to find your ideal.

skullofagerman · #20 11-29-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixlramp

skullofagerman, how's it going, need more help?
Warwick have no gauges between .145 and .175, and that .175 is very expensive and hard to find as a single, i would recommend Pyramid or Circle K Strings instead for more choice.
Pyramid sell .145 .150 .160 .170 .175 steel roundwounds at very low prices here http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/advan...anufacturers/1
If you're concerned about going as big as .175 for the low G# it's fine to use something thinner, just as long as you exceed 30 pounds of tension (extra light tension). So a .150 would be okay as long as you play it gently, it will be at a low tension and a little floppy but just tight enough for good tone. This way you won't have to drill out the hole in the bridge quite so much. Better to start with a smaller gauge and gradually increase it to fid your ideal.

I ordered these strings now:

Pyramid E-Bass "Stainless Steel" long scale Einzelsaite
.160w Stainless Steel Runddraht E-Bass / Einzelsaite
http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/produ...ducts_id/15836

Pyramid E-Bass "Stainless Steel" long scale Einzelsaite
.105w Stainless Steel Runddraht E-Bass / Einzelsaite
http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/produ...oducts_id/8032

Pyramid E-Bass "Stainless Steel" long scale Einzelsaite
.085w Stainless Steel Runddraht E-Bass / Einzelsaite
http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/produ...oducts_id/8028

Pyramid E-Bass "Stainless Steel" long scale Einzelsaite
.065w Stainless Steel Runddraht E-Bass / Einzelsaite
http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/produ...oducts_id/8024

I hope that this will work to get a great tone and I hope it's not gonna ruin my bass. In 2 days I will get this new bass and I think I will use it for the lower tuning...the good thing is, that it won't be necessary to adjust the bridge because it's totally different to the jazz bass...

http://kleinanzeigen.ebay.de/anzeige...79528715-74-25

What do you think...?

Cheers