A question or two about TI Jazz Flats...

[The Dave]

I've got a MIM J with DiMarzio Model Js and I've been switching back and forth between the original Fender steel rounds and some D'Addario Half Rounds. I like the tone and feel of the Half Rounds, but I want some more IMPACT or THUMP, if you will.

So, are these TIs really as magical as they're reputed to be? Do they really add a lot of thump? Do they really last forever? Do they really sound brighter and more lively than other flats? Does anybody have soundclips of a bass with Model Js and TI flats?

I'd really like to hear the good and the bad from some long-time users.

Thanks! - DW

[The Craw]

You can resist the incredible overhype about these strings. I'm sure you can.

Lots of wide warm very prominent midrange that some guys obviously love. No clarity. No brightness. No thump at all. It amazes me to read claims that TIs have "that old school thump".

I flat out don't believe any claims that TIs or any other flatwounds last for years. No string can do that unless it's unplayed.

Not much highs. Not much lows. Must be TIs.

[ElBajista]

So, are these TIs really as magical as they're reputed to be?

Not magical, but great.

Do they really add a lot of thump?

Not super-bassy old-school thump, but nice, full low end with full, punchy mids and warm, clean highs.

Do they really last forever?

They'll "last" until they break. As with any string, they mellow with time. TIs, for instance, get better and better with age.

Do they really sound brighter and more lively than other flats?

IME, Yes, especially with basses with active preamps.

Does anybody have soundclips of a bass with Model Js and TI flats?

I would if I could. I have a 4 string SX with Model J's, but my computer with recording capabilities is down at the moment.

[ElBajista]

Originally Posted by The Craw

....It amazes me to read claims that TIs have "that old school thump".....

It all depends on the bass and amp you're using. I had a Skyline BG Ash/Maple P bass a while back that was strung with TIs. Between the Fralin pickup, the whole bass itself, the TIs, and my B100R, I was able to get a phenomenal "old-school" thump along with a bright, aggressive midrange punch with variations of technique and adjustments of the tone knob.

On my 55-02, TIs are an entirely different animal.

[62bass]

I've used nothing else for years. I first put them on a 70sP and liked them so much I put them on a Danelectro DC as soon as I bought it, a Carvin B4, an Ibanez SRX and a Godin A/E. In each case it was an improvement.

To me the strings sound more musical than others and they certainly do last and continue to sound good.

I don't know about old school thump and other terms bandied about so much. My only concern is-do they sound good enough to justify the cost? I think they do.

The best thing is buy a set and try them out. That's the only way you'll ever know for yourself.

[Sundogue]

Check out my comments in the thread "TI Flats revisited".

Do they provide that "old school" thump? I would say yes, if you have a rig to give you that. No string is going to make up for a weak, thin sounding rig.

My sound "live" has never been so solid. "In your face" bass is about the best way to describe it.

Are they brighter? Brighter than other flats to be sure. Not as "zingy" bright like roundwounds, but bright none-the-less.

And there are many, many bass players that keep their strings on forever. Duck Dunn reportedly kept the same strings on for twenty years (not TI's, but flatwounds). As long as strings stay in tune and don't break, I see no reason to change them. At least for flats anyway. Those that like that brand new, piano-like brightness only a roundwound can give you, then yeah you'll pretty much have to shell out $30+ every few weeks.

[62bass]

That reminds me--last night I watched about 10 minutes of a Marcus Miller live concert on TV. Now that was for sure not the sound of TI flats. Horrible thin and harsh sound, to my taste anyhow. I like his playing but can't get past that sound. I've heard guys play the same way on a Fender J with TIs and loved the sound.

It's a matter of taste I suppose.

[The Dave]

Thanks for the comments guys! I'm thinkin' I'll order a set next payday (I always get a little treat for my wife and myself). Then I'll let you know what I think about 'em!

BTW - How about them Cowboys!

[The Craw]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Do they provide that "old school" thump? I would say yes, if you have a rig to give you that. No string is going to make up for a weak, thin sounding rig.

Well, that may be my problem. I only played them through my Mesa Bass 400+ and an Ampeg SVT 4PRO I had on long term loan, and my two Mesa 1x15s and Mesa 4x10. Maybe if I had a real rig instead of my "weak" rig, I would have seen the light and heard the miraculous tone.

Are they brighter? Brighter than other flats to be sure. Not as "zingy" bright like roundwounds, but bright none-the-less.

IMO they aren't nearly as bright as Chromes, LaBellas, Fender and Roto flats.

And there are many, many bass players that keep their strings on forever.... As long as strings stay in tune and don't break, I see no reason to change them. At least for flats anyway....

No, there aren't. I know scores of professional bassists and they all change their strings, including the flatwound users. Flatwounds do last longer but they have the same kind of core a roundwound has. It suffers from the same metal fatigue after being played and loses intonation or tuning stability the same way. The outer windings are made of the same materials and get dull and corroded. The only strings that stay as new for years are on basses that aren't played.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by The Craw

Well, that may be my problem. I only played them through my Mesa Bass 400+ and an Ampeg SVT 4PRO I had on long term loan, and my two Mesa 1x15s and Mesa 4x10. Maybe if I had a real rig instead of my "weak" rig, I would have seen the light and heard the miraculous tone.


IMO they aren't nearly as bright as Chromes, LaBellas, Fender and Roto flats.


No, there aren't. I know scores of professional bassists and they all change their strings, including the flatwound users. Flatwounds do last longer but they have the same kind of core a roundwound has. It suffers from the same metal fatigue after being played and loses intonation or tuning stability the same way. The outer windings are made of the same materials and get dull and corroded. The only strings that stay as new for years are on basses that aren't played.

Hmmm, I only play through a used Peavey T-Max 210/115 and I've got thump galore.

And I agree that if a string won't stay in tune, or has just "lost it", they should be changed.

[Bassist4Life]

I love the TI Jazz Flats! I have them on my P-Bass. I will be putting them on my Yamaha TRB1006. I just got a fretless J-Bass in the mail today and it too will soon have TI Jazz Flats.

I like that I can play in a chordal style and still hear all the strings ring clearly (no mud).

I mainly play my TI Jazz Flats in a jazz trio/quartet. They are worth the $40 IMO.

Joe

[king_biscuit]

I agree with the poster above. TIs are very thin sounding strings. If you want thump, try a set of La Bella 760FS. TIs are not bright at all -- even new -- they just lack any real low end thump so I believe people get confused. I hate them, so sue me

[ElBajista]

Originally Posted by The Craw

Well, that may be my problem. I only played them through my Mesa Bass 400+ and an Ampeg SVT 4PRO I had on long term loan, and my two Mesa 1x15s and Mesa 4x10. Maybe if I had a real rig instead of my "weak" rig, I would have seen the light and heard the miraculous tone.

Well, certain people find it difficult to find the true source of the "bad" tone they're hearing. There's a lot of factors involved in tone, and even a simple change in strings makes the whole gamit completely different. The bass, the strings, the electronics, the setup, the player's technique, the amp characteristics, driver number and size, preamp settings, and the alignment of the planets all make for variations in tone.

For example, with DR Hi-beams on my 55-02, I find myself pushing the mids to get punchier tone, whereas with TIs on the same bass I find myself pushing the bass a tad to get some more "boom" to the bottom of the tone, while leaving the mids and treble flat. This change also requires variations in technique and bass setup, therefore drastically altering the "nature of the beast."

Originally Posted by The Craw

IMO they aren't nearly as bright as Chromes, LaBellas, Fender and Roto flats.

If you describe "bright" as "clank" than the above statement is correct. I had chromes on a 44-02 I had, and it was difficult to remove the clanky treble without losing overall treble clarity. Then again, this was my one and only experience with Chromes. They are the most "slap-able" set of flats I've ever played.

Originally Posted by The Craw

No, there aren't. I know scores of professional bassists and they all change their strings, including the flatwound users. Flatwounds do last longer but they have the same kind of core a roundwound has. It suffers from the same metal fatigue after being played and loses intonation or tuning stability the same way. The outer windings are made of the same materials and get dull and corroded. The only strings that stay as new for years are on basses that aren't played.

If the majority of players periodically change their strings, does that automatically mean that certain strings can't last a long time? I don't really see how any of this is relevant. Of course no string will last "forever" because "forever" is a really, really long time. Those of you with 56K dialup know of what I speak.

Originally Posted by The Craw

The outer windings are made of the same materials and get dull and corroded.

That's not corrosion! That's "The Funk!"

[Sundogue]

One man's trash is another man's TI's.

All I can say is (and this is coming from a strictly roundwound guy)...I have never come across a set of flats (and I have tried them ALL) that are as bright, even and so fundamentally pure from string to string, all over the neck...as TI Flats.

The ONLY flat that has converted a 25+ years, roundwound string, bass player.

Just my opinion.

[king_biscuit]

I've been playing about 22 years, and I have played many many different rounds and flats on many many different basses. I have tried TIs on four different basses. I want to like them so I can be cool too (they are the flavor of the week it seems) Alas, they are just not for me! I am glad that they work for others, though.

[The Dave]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

I've been playing about 22 years, and I have played many many different rounds and flats on many many different basses. I have tried TIs on four different basses. I want to like them so I can be cool too (they are the flavor of the week it seems) Alas, they are just not for me! I am glad that they work for others, though.

So, is there a flat that you do like? What did you dislike about the TIs?

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by The Dave

So, is there a flat that you do like? What did you dislike about the TIs?

Several: EB flats, La Bellas, Fenders... etc. (La Bellas are my favorite) I don't like the wigley/squirmy tension or the thin sound of the TIs. I prefer a more full sounding/feeling string. btw, the Model J is like a sledge hammer. That is one aftermarket pickup I dig... for rounds; it is, to paraphrase a famous movie, too brutal for flats. Try the Fender CS jazz pickups and a set of medium gauge La Bellas.

[JimmyM]

Ya, I don't dig TI's at all. Squirmy is a good word for them.

BTW, Craw, i'm a professional bassist and I've had the same set of LaBella flats on my P copy for over 7 years, I use it semi-regularly, and I won't change them until they break. So please allow me to be your first.

[The Craw]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

BTW, Craw, i'm a professional bassist and I've had the same set of LaBella flats on my P copy for over 7 years, I use it semi-regularly, and I won't change them until they break. So please allow me to be your first.

My first what? No offense but I was talking about pros I know personally. There seems to be no shortage of people on bass boards who claim many years of use. But I did say they won't stay "as new" for years if they're actually played, and I'll stand by that.

That reminds me, about three years ago an acquaintance asked me if I could figure out why he couldn't get his old Mosrite to intonate properly. It took me about 60 seconds to figure out that two of the strings were bad. It was probably partial separation of the core from the windings. He just didn't want to believe it because he had read that flats would last forever and these had only been on a couple of years. But a new set of strings did the trick even though he had to be dragged into changing them.

YYMV, of course.

[jady]

Where can one buy a set of TI flats, where is the best deal. I have chromes right now and its a toss up. I dig the benefits of a better fundamental, more even string responce and clearer chords but I miss some of the zip if you will of roundwounds. I want to try the TIs before i make a call.