Question: Why are short scale strings manufactured in lower gauge?

Meatrus · #1 06-25-2010, 03:45 PM

I feel a little embarrassed I don't know this, but in my defence I have never had a short scale bass before

My question is this: Why are bass strings for short scale basses lower in gauge than the standard gauge? As most of us know higher scale length means higher tension, lower scale means lower tension. So I would have though short scale basses would really benefit from heavier gauge strings rather than lighter. Are short scales tuned an octave higher (like a guitar) or something?. That is all I can think of at the moment as an explanation, but I'm sure its really obvious and I'm looking right at it!

I'm basing this on Rotosounds only shorty string (40-90 IIRC), and also Fenders (40-95), both of course way lower than standard gauge.

Look forward to all of you making me feel like an arse

.

hdracer · #2 06-25-2010, 03:52 PM

Roto 88's are 115-90-75-65
D'Addario XL Nickel' are 50-105
Chromes are 45-100

Meatrus · #3 06-25-2010, 04:03 PM

Thanks a lot for mentioning them. Unfortunately I don't like either of the D'addarios, and find the Trubass quite one dimensional (I like the sound, but only on one of my basses!). So it still makes me wonder why the two I had checked on offer such a low gauge, would they be as floppy as I'm guessing? That gauge on a 34" is pretty floppy, with it on a 30" I imagine it would be pretty bad. There must be something I'm missing?

Rotos are my personal favorite so would love to have them, but with that gauge it sounds like it would be flopsville.

hdracer · #4 06-25-2010, 04:10 PM

I have had problems with the 77's going dead. They will send you a new set free but what a hassle. They are very floppy on the short scale too. Chromes or 88's are on my shorty's now, and Chromes my 32 medium

Meatrus · #5 06-25-2010, 04:15 PM

Thanks, I tried the 77s a while back and quite liked them so will keep them as an option if the rounds are real floppy. I have the 88s on my fretless, and really like them too, but I want a different sound for this bass.

I was talking of the 66 when I mentioned the Rotos. It seems at the moment like I havn't missed anything, and they just should be making them in a higher gauge, or at least offering a higher gauge.

Thanks a lot for the other suggestions

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JustDavid · #6 06-25-2010, 04:46 PM

Wrong:
They are a lower gauge to maintain a certain tension.

Tension's not just gauge, it's also tuning. A short scale is like capo'ing at the 2nd fret. So you have to uptune 2 semitones to get the same noting.

Deadsticking a guide from D'Addario's string tension chart, a 110 E at 34" would have about the same tension as a 100 E at 30.5".

Better:

If you take a 70 A (D'Addario XLB070) & tune to A at 34" you have 33.7 pounds of tension.

If you take a similar 80 A (D'Addario XLB070) & downtune to G at 34" you have 33.3 pounds. If you capo that at the 2nd fret (30.5") you now have a short scale A.

(After my inverting the physics I'm not pronouncing ANY conclusions.)

Meatrus · #7 06-25-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDavid

They are a lower gauge to maintain a certain tension.

Tension's not just gauge, it's also tuning. A short scale is like capo'ing at the 2nd fret. So you have to uptune 2 semitones to get the same noting.

Deadsticking a guide from D'Addario's string tension chart, a 110 E at 34" would have about the same tension as a 100 E at 30.5".

Thanks! That exactly what I was talking about.... but still why? A 36" has more tension than a 35" and a 35" more than a 34". So I would have thought a 30" would have much less. Of course the tuning accounts for tension also, but the tuning is still the same on a 30 as it is on a 34...no?

MartinBorgen · #8 06-25-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDavid

They are a lower gauge to maintain a certain tension.

Tension's not just gauge, it's also tuning. A short scale is like capo'ing at the 2nd fret. So you have to uptune 2 semitones to get the same noting.

Deadsticking a guide from D'Addario's string tension chart, a 110 E at 34" would have about the same tension as a 100 E at 30.5".

uptune? capoing at second fret would require DOWNtuning two semitones to get an E at the second fret. downtuning would also result in lesser tension.

am i missing something?

JustDavid · #9 06-25-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykopatsak

uptune? capoing at second fret would require DOWNtuning two semitones to get an E at the second fret. downtuning would also result in lesser tension.

am i missing something?

No; I am. I got it completely backwards. About to fix it to avoid confusing people. (mutter mutter mutter)

Sorry folks!

Meatrus · #10 06-25-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykopatsak

uptune? capoing at second fret would require DOWNtuning two semitones to get an E at the second fret. downtuning would also result in lesser tension.

am i missing something?

I'm glad someones paying attenion

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDavid

No; I am. I got it completely backwards. About to fix it to avoid confusing people. (mutter mutter mutter)

Sorry folks!

So....back where we started then? My currently inebriated brain cant take another confusion like that one

.

JustDavid · #11 06-25-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatrus

I'm glad someones paying attenion

So....back where we started then? My currently inebriated brain cant take another confusion like that one

.

Meatrus; sorry!! Wrong info is worse than no info. Don't know how the heck I flipped my physics there; VERY embarrassed.

Got my original post repaired.

JustDavid · #12 06-25-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatrus

Thanks! That exactly what I was talking about.... but still why? A 36" has more tension than a 35" and a 35" more than a 34". So I would have thought a 30" would have much less. Of course the tuning accounts for tension also, but the tuning is still the same on a 30 as it is on a 34...no?

Folks, apologies for my initial WRONG reply that Meatrus has quoted.

"the tuning is still the same on a 30 as it is on a 34...no?"
Yes & no. The tuning stays EADG, but the scale length changes the tension. Might be clearer in my repaired post above.

Meatrus · #13 06-26-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDavid

Folks, apologies for my initial WRONG reply that Meatrus has quoted.

"the tuning is still the same on a 30 as it is on a 34...no?"
Yes & no. The tuning stays EADG, but the scale length changes the tension. Might be clearer in my repaired post above.

No problem about the mistake, I feel a bit silly for not picking up on it myself. I guess you can see where I was coming from now though (more scale, same tuning = more tension, less scale = les tension, so why light gauge?). I guess it just doesnt make any sense why they make the ligher gauge. I'm a little p***** as I took it as the norm and ordered a set of the Rotos (before posting here

). I wont get to know how bad they are until I have finished building the bass though! Watch this space in the next two weeks or so if your interested, I have neck and body nearly finished.