Reaching a lower octave string Question

[bass.monger]

OK, so ive joined this heavy brutal metal band and they want to get as low an octave range as possible. Atm i only have a 4 string bass and the lowest i could tune without the strings getting weak and flappy is a drop c. they want to be able to play at a drop b or a. To do this i would need a 5 string bass of which i do not have, nor do i have the money for. So, i was wondering if its a plausible idea to try and put the lower 4 strings of a set of 5 on my bass and have it play in the lower octave we want. Id rather try and do something like that, rather than having someone fiddle around with my bass' neck to get to the lower range and never be able to play standard ever again.
Pardon me if someone has already asked this question in the forum, but i really wanted to know.

[hinklegm]

There's no reason you wouldn't be able to put the low 4 strings of a 5 string set on your 4 string. It's what I do when I need to play heavier music.

[jpfbass]

A lot of people string their bass BEAD like this. Not really a big conversion, although you may have to file your nut a little to reduce rattling/buzzing.

[Hugh Jass]

Try doing a search of "tuning BEAD". It comes up quite a bit.

It is not unusual but one problem you will encounter is that if you put, lets say a .130 B string where a .105 E string used to live, it won't fit in the nut slot. Same applies to the other three. You can get a luthier to make your nut slots bigger to fit, or even pop your nut out and make a second one to accommodate the heavier strings. You can secure it with a dab of white glue and if you ever want to switch back it won't be hard to pop it out.

You may also need to add some relief to the neck as the heavier strings + your low tuning will put less tension on the neck than the standard strings.

Can of worms eh?

[bass.monger]

thanks for the help guys, i didnt know where to search at first so i just made a new thread.

[knuckle_head]

You can tune anywhere you want with a 4 string - including the octave below B on a 5 string if you want to go that low. My 4 is tuned to octave below E - 20 Hz-ish.

[FunkMetalBass]

Hey Skip, what cabs do you use for your sub-contra stuff? Also, is that E0 on your 39" scale Quake, or do you rock a 34"/35" scale with that string?

[Nev375]

I'm not aware of any cab that can produce an EO. Not even sure if many people can hear that.

[Podgorny]

Originally Posted by Nev375

I'm not aware of any cab that can produce an EO. Not even sure if many people can hear that.

Well, technically everyone can hear it. People's high-end varies quite a bit, but we all can detect the lowest notes.

Problem is, as you said, most cabinets have very poor response below 40Hz.

[Nev375]

Originally Posted by Podgorny

Well, technically everyone can hear it. People's high-end varies quite a bit, but we all can detect the lowest notes.

Problem is, as you said, most cabinets have very poor response below 40Hz.

I think somewhere around 20Hz people's ears stop being able to sense those frequencies and we only hear overtones. But you are right, we can still detect the fundamental.... with our guts.

You would probably need a wall of folded horn subs and the roadies to move them.

[Plstrns]

I tune E0-A-D-G on one of my 35" Cirrus 4 strings, Circle K 200's 200-150-112-84. My other Cirrus ADGC set is 150-112-84-61.

The best low A I've ever played, great strings.

[Hugh Jass]

Gotta see a pic of that .200!

[FoHBass]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jass

Gotta see a pic of that .200!

Same here. That's nuts. I wasn't even aware they made strings that big.

[Plstrns]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jass

Gotta see a pic of that .200!

Hope this helps. The strings are 200-150-112-84

[Billy Low]

Check w/Jauqo III-X. I'm sure he can provide some helpful info.

[Plstrns]

Out of focus neck shot. The strings make my Cirrus neck look like a Beatles bass! LOL

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Hey Skip, what cabs do you use for your sub-contra stuff? Also, is that E0 on your 39" scale Quake, or do you rock a 34"/35" scale with that string?

I built my current cabinets - a 1x10/1x12 that is solid to about 50 Hz, and then a 15" sub that is -3db at 17 Hz. Very large and very heavy. I am in process with a FeaRB sub and 6/tweet satelite and hope to own a 21" Bag End Infra.

Yes the E0 is on a 4 string Quake - I use a .182 for E as the scale length lets me.

Originally Posted by Nev375

I'm not aware of any cab that can produce an EO. Not even sure if many people can hear that.

I'm not certain you'd want a cab that will produce 20 Hz, and in truth you don't need one. A bass note has more than twice the sound level at the first octave above the fundamental, and the fundamental usually sits at 10% to 15% of total volume - if your cab is capable of the octave above your actual fundamental that is all you truly need.

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by bass.monger

they want to be able to play at a drop b or a. ....... .So, i was wondering if its a plausible idea to try and put the lower 4 strings of a set of 5 on my bass and have it play in the lower octave we want.

The problem with using BEAD strings for drop B or drop A is that the B string in a 5 string set is almost always a lot looser than the other strings. Dropping the B to A or tuning up the EAD to F#BE results in an even bigger tension difference: the drop A would be uselessly floppy, or, the raised F#BE would be too tight.

Circle K Strings sell tension balanced 4 string sets for drop tunings, look for 'drop tune standard' sets.

I recommend:

4 String Set - Drop Tune Standard 136
.136 .092 .068 .049

... for drop B, and ...

4 String Set - Drop Tune Standard 150
.150 .100 .076 .055

... for drop A.

These sets are designed to have roughly equal tension on each string, so the lowest string will be as tight and punchy as the other strings, not floppy. They are excellent strings, see the reviews in the Circle K Strings thread.