Rickenbacker in drop C 110-55 or 105-50

[ampegfuzz]

I own a 1978 Rickenbacker 4001 (see Avitar) and i tune C-G-C-F# and want a thicker string. I "THINK" i have 100-45 XL's on it now but want to put a bigger string on. Would really like the 110-55 but if i have to sand the nut i won't put them on but will either gauge be ok in that tuning on that bass? What is the biggest string people have used on this era bass?

[knuckle_head]

A .110 would be alright at D. A better C is around .120.

Remember as well that the interval between the two thickest strings is a whole step more - traditional sets will leave your lowest string quite loose as compared to the rest of the set. That whole step costs you between 7 and 8 pounds of tension on your lowest string.

FWIW I usually suggest a .124 for C, but a .118 works well too.

[ampegfuzz]

But the biggest concern is the neck. What will it do to the neck with a string that heavy? You make it sound that if i was going to put a 110 on my bass it wouldn't be perfect in this tuning per most mainstream basses, but it would be on the safe side being a older ric with their know neck issues.

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by ampegfuzz

i tune C-G-C-F# ..... but if i have to sand the nut i won't put them on

Drop C is CGCF. So you're saying you don't want to file the nut? I'm guessing that the lowest nut slot is filed to .110 so that will probably fit, if not it will only need a tiny bit of filing.

I do recommend filing the lowest nut slot for a thicker string such as a .120, this will greatly improve the tone and playability.

Almost all string sets have the E much looser than the other strings, dropping the lowest string a tone will make it even looser. It's best to build a tension-balanced drop C set from singles (all strings at similar tension) or buy a tension-balanced 'Drop Tune Standard' set from this page: Circle K Strings 4 string sets. I recommend this set ...
4 String Set - Drop Tune Standard 118
.118 .080 .058 .043

Or if you build a set from singles ...

F .045 34.0 pounds of tension
C .060 34.1
G .080 33.3
C .120 32.0 (or a .110 29.1 if you don't want to file the nut)

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by ampegfuzz

But the biggest concern is the neck. What will it do to the neck with a string that heavy?

A .120 C is not a heavy string.

Looking at the D'Addario tension chart pdf, a .120 C will have a tension of only 32.0 pounds, this is an extra-light tension, no more than a .095 E string. For comparison, a standard .065 D string has 51.3 pounds of tension.

[ampegfuzz]

As i start to read into the tension charts more it makes sense. I don't want to do to much harm to the nut because it probably has not had a string larger then 105 in the E slot. Plus i don't want to change much from stock. I do play heavily distorted bass with the ric so a "perfect" guage is not "super" important at this juncture, plus it may go back to a standard tuning later on in its life.

Edit: Super helpful so far guys

[FretlessMainly]

You may be able to get a 110 without filing the nut slot, but you want to be careful with a 4001, as those necks vary quite a bit. Some can handle greater tension with ease and others will not. Thing is, to get a decent tension on a low C, you'd need to go to at least a 125 or even 130. The low B in a set of TI Jazz flats is 136.

So, from the sounds of it, you're likely going to have to sacrifice something; either widening the nut slot or accepting the possibility that the rods won't do what you need them to do. And don't tighten those rods without manually moving the neck into position first!!

[ampegfuzz]

yeah i read up about it has to be set off tension

Edit: it also seems string manufacturers don't even pay attention to their own tension charts and string fundamental
And this thread is going a lot better then some other ric/string threads i have come across

[ixlramp]

Okay, if you don't file the nut I recommend building an almost-tension-balanced set from these singles ...

F .045 34.0 pounds of tension
C .060 34.1
G .080 33.3
C .110 29.1

Or this tension-balanced set from Circle K Strings ...

4 String Set - Drop Tune Standard 112
.112 .076 .055 .040

Both of these options are extra-light tension.

If you're concerned about the neck, then a tension-balanced set is even more essential. Having an equal tension on each string spreads the stress evenly across the neck, with no chance of neck-twist.

Now look at the tensions of an XL 110-55 set tuned to CGCF ...

F 55 50.0 pounds of tension
C 75 53.7
G 90 43.2
C 110 29.1

There's a massive 30 pounds more tension on the 2 top strings than on the 2 lowest The top strings are very tight and the tension imbalance could twist the neck.

[ampegfuzz]

i have a bass in the basement with a 115 set up for B E A D (which doesn't work with this new knowledge i have either )I'll see how that fits and go from their im also waiting a new hipshot bridge which will be an added bonus if i get the string thing figured out

[ampegfuzz]

Originally Posted by ixlramp

Now look at the tensions of an XL 110-55 set tuned to CGCF ...

F 55 50.0 pounds of tension
C 75 53.7
G 90 43.2
C 110 29.1

There's a massive 30 pounds more tension on the 2 top strings than on the 2 lowest The top strings are very tight and the tension imbalance could twist the neck.

yeah thats what i was talking about do these people even know what going on with tension and peoples necks. Even i can see with the chart those strings are all wrong

[ixlramp]

Cool, and don't worry about widening the nut slot and then going back to a thinner string in the future. The downforce at the nut and the curved floor of the nut slot will keep a thinner string centred in the slot (from experience I've never had a problem, I had a .050 in a .165 slot).

[ampegfuzz]

just checked the mail and the bridge is here. dang it now i need strings . sometimes i can really hate the midwest and the lack of the simplest musical equipment and

[ixlramp]

Originally Posted by ampegfuzz

yeah thats what i was talking about do these people even know what going on with tension and peoples necks. Even i can see with the chart those strings are all wrong

Oh yeah it's on purpose, a tension imbalance is just the decades-old tradition of string sets. So many people are used to (for example) 100 80 65 45, that's what they want, so that's what the manufacturers provide ... it's a vicious cycle. There are many advantages to tension-balanced sets, and no disadvantages. This is why I'm such a fan of Circle K, they're breaking the cycle, most of their sets are tension-balanced.

[ampegfuzz]

how about 45 65 80 115?? a standard set with an added 115
edit 115 sits in nut ok and feeds though the bridge no prob

[ixlramp]

F .045 34.0 pounds of tension
C .065 40.7
G .080 33.3
C .115 roughly 30-31 pounds

Well a .060 C would be better, but it would work. The .065 C is a little tighter than the other strings, and the .115 a little looser. But 41 pounds is still medium-light tension. 10 pounds imbalance between high 2 and low 2 strings.

[ampegfuzz]

well since i have family in town and building a set would be next to impossable ill prolly just order the 112 set from circle k its the safest i think for the ric.

[FretlessMainly]

That's not a problem with a Rick!

And Ampeg fuzz, "yeah i read up about it has to be set off tension" confused me a bit; I want to make sure you understand so that you don't pop the fingerboard off your Rick. All truss rod adjustments need to be done with the strings at normal playing tension. On a 4001, what you need to do is to move the neck into position manually and then take up the slack in the rods by gently tightening the rods using a straight 1/4-inch thin-walled nut driver.

I do this by laying the bass flat on the floor, kneeling gently on the tailpiece to keep the bass steady and I use my left hand to push down on the headstock, effectively adding back-bow to the neck. Then I use my right hand to gently take up the slack with the nuts. Never apply too much torque or use anything other than gentle hand pressure on a straight 1/4-inch nut driver. From this angle (the reverse of sighting down the neck from the headstock end), it seems like you are turning the nuts in the opposite direction as you should; your right thumb rolls up and over the driver handle in the direction of the E and A tuners to tighten.

Since you are adding heavier strings, you will likely need to employ this procedure to keep the neck dead flat. See joey'sbassnotes for more info.

[ampegfuzz]

but if with the tuning and string gauge the tension will be equal or less then standard tuning tension. i'm doing the math right now

[FretlessMainly]

Did you decide on the Circle K's? I believe their charts are pretty reliable. If you do end up with lower tension, you may need to add some relief to the neck by loosening the nuts a bit. Loosening the nuts is much easier - I've been able to do that with none of the gymnastics I mentioned above regarding tightening them.

Hopefully things will work out about the same and you'll have no need to do anything except play.