Round core versus hex core string tension.

[mastershake]

In the past I'v heard people say round core string have less tension than their hex core counterparts, but as you can read this quote from Dean Farley maker of sob strings says "Round cores have more mass because they are completely round, while the hex-core is not. In addition, the more metal you have in a string, the stiffer it will be, which is highly influential on the way the string will vibrate. With the hex-core, you are allowed to have a bigger size outer wrap, while the round-core with it's larger mass needs a smaller size wrap to get the equal gauge as with the hex-style strings."
PART 20 "MORE STRING CONTROVERSY AND MYTHOLOGY" (strings tech) - Custom-Sounds

[Johnny Alien]

Lots of roundcore strings are lower tension but the biggest part of "perceived" tension is tightness of the string and roundcore are way more flexible than hex core strings.

[BassBob1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Alien

Lots of roundcore strings are lower tension but the biggest part of "perceived" tension is tightness of the string and roundcore are way more flexible than hex core strings.

This.

I think it depends on the string though too. For instance, to me, d'addario nickel XL's in 45-100 don't feel that much tighter than DR sunbeams in 45-105 though there is clearly a difference. But, TI Jazz flats which are also round core feel much looser than the sunbeams.

[Johnny Alien]

Originally Posted by BassBob1

TI Jazz flats which are also round core feel much looser than the sunbeams.

They shouldn't. Jazz flats are low tension for flatwound strings but flatwounds are usually much higher tension than rounds. So comparison wise TI's are low for a flat but equal to an average light set of rounds. So they end up similar to a .100 set of D'Addarios for example. Since Sunbeams are low tension for a round anyone thinking a TI Jazz set is floppy should hate Sunbeams.

[mmbongo]

Originally Posted by mastershake

In the past I'v heard people say round core string have less tension than their hex core counterparts, but as you can read this quote from Dean Farley maker of sob strings says "Round cores have more mass because they are completely round, while the hex-core is not.

That might be true..IF we're talking about equal sized wire. But we're not

[petrus61]

Originally Posted by Johnny Alien

They shouldn't. Jazz flats are low tension for flatwound strings but flatwounds are usually much higher tension than rounds. So comparison wise TI's are low for a flat but equal to an average light set of rounds. So they end up similar to a .100 set of D'Addarios for example. Since Sunbeams are low tension for a round anyone thinking a TI Jazz set is floppy should hate Sunbeams.

It's my experience that T.I.'s feel considerably less tense than a .100 set of D'Addarios. They are closer to a set of Sunbeams...maybe standard gauge.

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by mastershake

"Round cores have more mass because they are completely round, while the hex-core is not. In addition, the more metal you have in a string, the stiffer it will be when compared to an identical string with fewer wraps, a smaller core, or smaller wrap wire (and therefore, less mass), which is highly influential on the way the string will vibrate. With the hex-core, you are allowed to have a bigger size outer wrap, while the round-core with it's larger mass needs a smaller size wrap to get the equal gauge as with the hex-style strings. As a result of smaller wraps, round core strings are generally more flexible and higher tension than a hex core string of equivalent gauge, but the difference in tension is relatively small."

I fixed his quote in a way that should explain things a bit better.

[lijazz]

IME hex-core are stiffer. I tried a few different sets of round core and all felt too floppy for me. I like the feel of hex-core much better. Been using DR Lo-Riders for the past few years and love 'em.

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

I fixed his quote in a way that should explain things a bit better.

All I know is if he (Dean Farley) is talking about strings of the same gauge than he is correct in his assessment on tension as you can see in this illustration I made.


more mass = more tension

[darkstorm]

Roundcore of same gauges for dr neon to rotosound swing 66 gives slightly looser feel for the dr neons to me. Is very small diff. With some basses Ive tried both on no truss rod tweak was needed. With others slight adjustment was given. Slightly less tension for the neons with round core for same gauges. But Id geauss that this can vary by brand same as diff brands hex core strings of same gauge.

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by mastershake

All I know is if he (Dean Farley) is talking about strings of the same gauge than he is correct in his assessment on tension as you can see in this illustration I made.

Attachment 260713
more mass = more tension

Yep. Precisely. I just wanted to indicate that his statement about "more mass = stiffer" is not correct unless you're comparing two strings by the same manufacturer with the same material and construction type. For example, it's fair to compare a D'Addario .105 and .100. It's not fair to compare a D'Addario .105 and a DR .100.

[Kael]

Originally Posted by petrus61

It's my experience that T.I.'s feel considerably less tense than a .100 set of D'Addarios. They are closer to a set of Sunbeams...maybe standard gauge.

+1

[Johnny Alien]

Originally Posted by petrus61

It's my experience that T.I.'s feel considerably less tense than a .100 set of D'Addarios. They are closer to a set of Sunbeams...maybe standard gauge.

D'Addarios make a less balanced set so their A and D strings are higher tension but on a whole the average tension of the TI Jazz Flats is inbetween the .95 and .100 D'Addario nickel XL sets. In fact on the .100 set the E and G are less tension than the TI's. The round core will make them more flexible but on a whole people get scared away from TI's by people saying they are floppy when they are not far off a light set of rounds. They are low tension for flats though. A .105 set of Sunbeams feels similar to the Jazz Flats. The lighter sets of Sunbeams feel much looser than the jazz flats. And for true low low low tension TI Jazz rounds are the lowest tension I have ever played.

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Yep. Precisely. I just wanted to indicate that his statement about "more mass = stiffer" is not correct unless you're comparing two strings by the same manufacturer with the same material and construction type.

correct. I just thought that this was understood when I made that statment

[mmbongo]

Originally Posted by mastershake

All I know is if he (Dean Farley) is talking about strings of the same gauge than he is correct in his assessment on tension as you can see in this illustration I made.

Attachment 260713
more mass = more tension

We've had this discussion before. You could just as easily put the round core INSIDE the hex core, then the round core would be smaller. So, no. Dean is not correct.

[mmbongo]

Here's another way of looking at the hex vs. round. Now which has less mass? This is why round cores generally have lower tension.

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by mmbongo

Here's another way of looking at the hex vs. round. Now which has less mass? This is why round cores generally have lower tension.

As it turns out, it's the former (some thread about a month ago corrected me) - the hexagon is inscribed. The wrap wire grips into the hexagon a bit, but generally leaves a gap that isn't present with round cores.

[mastershake]

Originally Posted by mmbongo

Here's another way of looking at the hex vs. round. Now which has less mass? This is why round cores generally have lower tension.

When we speak of strings of the same gauge (diameter), material and construction then yes dean is right. here's an illustration of a hollow string (just the wrap) with a diameter of lets say .100. which core do you think would fill it more a hex or round?

[Kael]

Originally Posted by Johnny Alien

D'Addarios make a less balanced set so their A and D strings are higher tension but on a whole the average tension of the TI Jazz Flats is inbetween the .95 and .100 D'Addario nickel XL sets. In fact on the .100 set the E and G are less tension than the TI's. The round core will make them more flexible but on a whole people get scared away from TI's by people saying they are floppy when they are not far off a light set of rounds. They are low tension for flats though. A .105 set of Sunbeams feels similar to the Jazz Flats. The lighter sets of Sunbeams feel much looser than the jazz flats. And for true low low low tension TI Jazz rounds are the lowest tension I have ever played.

I don't get this. I've seen people assert that they are only low tension for a flat. This is just erroneous. I used them for the better part of a year. They are floppier than just about any other string I have experience with, round or flat. I had to root my right hand within a couple inches of the bridge to play anything at speed. Frankly, I got along better with Sunbeams than I did with the TI's. Too bad as they sounded great.

Caveat, I play mostly fretless with my strings set rather low. Maybe if I liked my strings jacked up higher or used TI's on a fretted bass I would find them more acceptable. As it is, I am content with plain old XL's (light gauge set) set low. Noticeably more tension with these than the TI's.


note: I am not hating on these strings. They really are great strings. I think that everyone should give them a shot. If you like lower tension, TI's are the bee's knees.

[Johnny Alien]

Originally Posted by Kael

I don't get this. I've seen people assert that they are only low tension for a flat. This is just erroneous. I used them for the better part of a year. They are floppier than just about any other string I have experience with, round or flat. I had to root my right hand within a couple inches of the bridge to play anything at speed. Frankly, I got along better with Sunbeams than I did with the TI's. Too bad as they sounded great.

Caveat, I play mostly fretless with my strings set rather low. Maybe if I liked my strings jacked up higher or used TI's on a fretted bass I would find them more acceptable. As it is, I am content with plain old XL's (light gauge set) set low. Noticeably more tension with these than the TI's.


note: I am not hating on these strings. They really are great strings. I think that everyone should give them a shot. If you like lower tension, TI's are the bee's knees.

I'm not sure? I like low action as well. I have a bass here with TI Flats and three with Sunbeams. The Sunbeams feel much lower tension to me. I have never felt TI Jazz were as "floppy" as people seem to make them out to be. And honestly I don't care if people have a different impressions of them, I think it just turns alot of people off of trying them when they could ultimately not come away with the same impression.

This would be easier to discuss if DR actually released their tension specs.