roundwounds on a fretless?

[slugworth]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Not doing this can make all the difference in the world... but it'll be our little secret



Roundwounds have come a long way from the old chainsaws they originally were

Again, there are loads of compromise strings available. If what you want is the sound that only roundwound give there's a relative easy way to do it:

1. Use nickel rounds. I've gotten great results on fretless with Ken Smith Burner NPS, SIT and DR Sunbeams.

2. Learn to play in a less destructive fashion.

Simple.

>>>Maybe try a set of compression wounds, like the
Ken Smiths or Rotosound 55's...98% of the roundwound
tones, but with significantly less wear and tear...

Slug

[Brad Johnson]

Or...


1. Use nickel rounds. I've gotten great results on fretless with Ken Smith Burner NPS, SIT and DR Sunbeams.

2. Learn to play in a less destructive fashion*.

And get 100% of the roundwound vibe

Happy holidays



*granted, most people don't want to spend the time on number 2

[tww001]

i just put a coat of devcon 2-ton epoxy on, I'll see what happens in a coupla hours.

[Stingraymund]

Hey I just switched my TI Jazz Flats on my Stingray fretless for a set of EB Extra Slinkys (.040-.095) I had lying around. Wow! much mwah! I miss the smooth feel of flats, but I like the buzziness of roundwounds. At least it gives me a better grip on things.

I say if you're worried about fret wear, go for real light gauge strings, so they won't leave as much of a mark.

[Brian S]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

1. Use nickel rounds. I've gotten great results on fretless with Ken Smith Burner NPS, SIT and DR Sunbeams.

Hi Brad!

I have a MIM Fender Jazz (2 months now) that still has the factory installed flats on it. I've been thinking about trying the DR Sunbeams. How are they for neck wear and mwah? I'm looking for more mwah.

[sfbassplayer]

I have a fretless Lakland that I've played nickel roundwounds on for over 5 years and I've only had to dress the ebony fretboard once ... and that's not even a total re-radius. That time includes a lot of practice and gigging with plenty of fingerboard left for decades of playing without worrying about replacing the fingerboard.

I also put nickel roundwounds on my Elrick with pink ivory fretboard for the last two years and haven't had any signifigant wear issues. Personally, I would go with whatever set-up gives you the sound you want regardless of wear and tear issues and only use epoxy if it gives you the sound your are looking for.

Another less drastic option to epoxy is to use several coats of Stew-Mac fretboard finishing oil:
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-3863.html

It will give your fretboard a little harder finish, but not change the tone as drastically as epoxy.

[tww001]

I haven't noticed a drastic tonal change on my bass from the epoxy. A little, but it sounds great to my ears. I like the feel though, it makes everything feel smoother.

[quallabone]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

2. Learn to play in a less destructive fashion*.

Here Here!

I was lucky enough to be taught by the luthier who builds my basses. He yelled at me a couple of times and straightened me out very quickly. No wear on my Pau Ferro boards because of it. Rounds from day one. Flats are for upright.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Brian S

Hi Brad!

I have a MIM Fender Jazz (2 months now) that still has the factory installed flats on it. I've been thinking about trying the DR Sunbeams. How are they for neck wear and mwah? I'm looking for more mwah.

I've used the Sunbeams on my Brubaker and Elrick fretlesses with pretty much zero wear. Ken Smith Burners and SIT Nickel rounds also work very well IME.

PM me and I'll be glad to go over exactly how I do this. It's actually pretty easy to not cause wear. The difference between your Jazz with flats and with Nickel rounds is pretty amazing. You can still get a thumpy sound if you want or you can get a very Jaco-esque swell and growl.

[Brad Johnson]

Fretless is one of my favorite things to play. They're fun, even when you frustrate the heck out of yourself on one of those bad ear days. It is a different animal than a fretted and when treated as such there's a whole new world that can open up tonally. The cool thing is, once you get the fretless under your belt, you can take a lot of the finesse you've gained directly over to fretted. Like most useful skills, it takes time and practice.

IMO people spend way too much time fretting () about tearing up fingerboards. The cheapest fix is to learn not to do it in the first place. A bonus is that this "fix" is very portable... it can go from bass to bass to bass.

Have fun.

[Copycat]

Try moving toward roundwounds in stages. As previously suggested, try pressurewounds first (I used to use GHS Pressurewounds, but other makers have them; they might be called half rounds, too). If you're not happy with the brightness of those, move up to nickel roundwounds. I use D'Addario XLs on my Stambaugh fretless and really like them. I've also used and liked DR Sunbeams. My fingerboard is ebony, which is significantly harder than rosewood, which is why you might want to try the intermediate step of pressurewounds before making the nickel roundwound jump.

[BillyB_from_LZ]

Originally Posted by Brian S

Hi Brad!

I have a MIM Fender Jazz (2 months now) that still has the factory installed flats on it. I've been thinking about trying the DR Sunbeams. How are they for neck wear and mwah? I'm looking for more mwah.

Setup is critical for good mwah... very little relief, etc. Gary Willis' site has a nice tutorial on fretless setup.

Another benefit is having an amp/preamp with sweepable mid frequency. Mwah usually hides in the 800 to 1000 Hz range and being able to pinpoint it with your amp helps a lot.

[jenderfazz]

Originally Posted by BillyB_from_LZ

Setup is critical for good mwah... very little relief, etc. Gary Willis' site has a nice tutorial on fretless setup.

Another benefit is having an amp/preamp with sweepable mid frequency. Mwah usually hides in the 800 to 1000 Hz range and being able to pinpoint it with your amp helps a lot.

There are a lot of factors associated with mwah, including the type of string used. Obviously, roundwounds in general tend to help a lot, as well as mids and relief. Action tends to play the biggest role, in my experience. Low action on a fretless doesn't result in fretbuzz, it results in mwah. Generally, a rosewood board like the one on your MIM might get worn out a little by rounds but it's really not significant. You'll get white marks on your board, but you won't get any real wear (ie, dents in the board) for a long time. I think it's perfectly fine to used nickel rounds.

[Stingraymund]

What about stinless steel rounds on a fretless? Would they really tear into the fingerboard considerably more than nickel rounds?
I know Pino Palladino used (SS) Rotosounds. Is the tone different?

I currently have a set of (very light gauge) Ernie Ball Slinkys on my fretless. The low tension is alright, since I was used to low tension when I used to use TI Jazz flats, but I don't like the acoustic string harmonics when I pluck or finger them (this doesn't get picked up by the amp though, but I can hear/feel it).

I recently played a Warwick Corvette fretless at Guitard Center and I was floored by the tone. It also had SS rounds on it though.
Any of you play fretless with SS rounds?

[Brian S]

Originally Posted by jenderfazz

There are a lot of factors associated with mwah, including the type of string used. Obviously, roundwounds in general tend to help a lot, as well as mids and relief. Action tends to play the biggest role, in my experience. Low action on a fretless doesn't result in fretbuzz, it results in mwah. Generally, a rosewood board like the one on your MIM might get worn out a little by rounds but it's really not significant. You'll get white marks on your board, but you won't get any real wear (ie, dents in the board) for a long time. I think it's perfectly fine to used nickel rounds.

I took my MIM to the luthier at guitar center and had him set it up for mwah. He lowered the action and put on D'addario nickel rounds. Now it sings. We discovered that if we turn the neck pickup volume down just a bit that the mwah jumps out.

Originally Posted by BillyB_from_LZ

Setup is critical for good mwah... very little relief, etc. Gary Willis' site has a nice tutorial on fretless setup.

Another benefit is having an amp/preamp with sweepable mid frequency. Mwah usually hides in the 800 to 1000 Hz range and being able to pinpoint it with your amp helps a lot.

I found boosting the mids brings out the mwah. I normally ran the eq on my amp with high lows and highs and reduced mids. It looked like a smiley face To bring out the mwah I reversed the eq to look like a frowny face It works very well.

[Copycat]

Stingraymund: Stainless rounds are definitely more abrasive, but the level of abrasion seems to be different from brand to brand based on the way they're wound, I suppose. I personally would shy away from ss rounds on a fretless unless I had a coated board or a synthetic board or something, but that's just me. I like the tone I get from nickel rounds, and that's as far as I want to go, but if ss deliver the sound you want, that's all that matters. The resulting effects of the stainless rounds on the board can be dealt with when the time comes.

[jenderfazz]

Originally Posted by Copycat

Stingraymund: Stainless rounds are definitely more abrasive, but the level of abrasion seems to be different from brand to brand based on the way they're wound, I suppose. I personally would shy away from ss rounds on a fretless unless I had a coated board or a synthetic board or something, but that's just me. I like the tone I get from nickel rounds, and that's as far as I want to go, but if ss deliver the sound you want, that's all that matters. The resulting effects of the stainless rounds on the board can be dealt with when the time comes.

I had some stainless strings on my Squier fretless for about a year. Pretty bright tone, which had its perks. However, it did leave a lot of white marks all over my board. Not a big deal, but if I played that bass as often as my main bass it would probably wear out. I still don't think it's that big a deal, since a quick sanding and refinishing, which would take about a day, would get it back to top shape, and you probably wouldn't have to do it more than once every few years.

[tornadobass]

I've been working on an SX fretless Jazz project. I put on a couple coats of Minwax Wipe-on Poly, which is recommended on the Rob Allen web site. It's real easy to do and it seems to be helping the fingerboard stay in good shape with nickelwounds...ditto, too, on avoiding fretted-style string bends...besides wear, it goes against the basic sound of playing fretless.

[Mud Flaps]

I'd much rather have good tone and redo the fretboard every several years than play many years with a bass with crappy tone.