Same Strings, Same Scale Length, Different Tension. Why?

[WJGreer]

Two of my basses are 34" scale 5-strings. I've got the same strings on both, and they are both set up similarly with regard to action and neck relief. Yet, the strings seem to have more tension on one of the basses than the other. Or, otherwise, the strings feel "softer" on one bass than the other for some reason.

I can't figure out whay I would be feeling this. Any thoughts?

[WJGreer]

Nobody, eh? Well, at least I don't feel crazy.

[Slowgypsy]

I'm guessing that while the strings are the same, the instruments are not. If that's true, it would make sense to me as different basses simply feel differently from one another.

So.... are the instruments the same or are they different makes/models?

[paste]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Two of my basses are 34" scale 5-strings. I've got the same strings on both, and they are both set up similarly with regard to action and neck relief. Yet, the strings seem to have more tension on one of the basses than the other. Or, otherwise, the strings feel "softer" on one bass than the other for some reason.

I can't figure out whay I would be feeling this. Any thoughts?

Did you put the strings on at the same time? New strings tend to have higher tension then older strings IME.

[darkstorm]

Is one strung thru body and the other regular top of bass on bridge? Thru body does give a sense of little bit tighter strings somehow in my experience.

[Jay2U]

Which kind of basses are concerned? For the same strings with the same active length, the tension should be equal. This can simply be derived from the string formula. If not, the actual scale length between nut (or zeroth fret, if present) and saddles has to be different. Many 5-stringers are a bit longer, like 34.5" to 35".

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

I'm guessing that while the strings are the same, the instruments are not. If that's true, it would make sense to me as different basses simply feel differently from one another.

So.... are the instruments the same or are they different makes/models?

Originally Posted by Jay2U

Which kind of basses are concerned? For the same strings with the same active length, the tension should be equal. This can simply be derived from the string formula. If not, the actual scale length between nut (or zeroth fret, if present) and saddles has to be different. Many 5-stringers are a bit longer, like 34.5" to 35".

They are definitely different instruments, which is why I am so curious. Objectively, as relates to string tension, the mathematics are the same, so I can't explain the difference in feel. The "softer" feeling bass has a zero fret, and the "harder" feeling bass does not...but unless the zero fret is betraying the scale length to be shorter than advertised, I don't think that should matter.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by paste

Did you put the strings on at the same time? New strings tend to have higher tension then older strings IME.

I'm rotating two sets on each bass, all old enough to be fully broken in.

[Jay2U]

It certainly would be worthwhile to measure the active length of the strings. This differs per string, as the saddles aren't in the same position due to intonation. Scale length is given in inches. I wouldn't be surprised if this spec is rounded to the nearest whole inch. A difference of half an inch between the instruments is certainly noticeable.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by Jay2U

It certainly would be worthwhile to measure the active length of the strings. This differs per string, as the saddles aren't in the same position due to intonation. Scale length is given in inches. I wouldn't be surprised if this spec is rounded to the nearest whole inch. A difference of half an inch between the instruments is certainly noticeable.

I just did...they are both very close to 34", with small variances string-to-string, as you suggest.

[tstone]

If the strings are truly the same and the scale lengths are the same, the actual string tension -- the force which the string exerts on the tuning post and on the ball end -- are the same. Physics demands it.

But there's a difference between actual tension and perceived tension, or compliance. Compliance is defined as the force required to bend a string sideways a given distance at a given fret, but also affects the overall feel even if you're not doing any string bending. Factors which affect compliance and will make strings feel 'softer' include:

* Deeper nut slots, or, lower action at the first fret
* Shallower break angle at the nut
* Shallower break angle at the bridge
* Longer length of string between nut and tuning post
* Longer length of string between saddle and ball end
* Lower coefficient of friction between string and nut slot
* Lower coefficient of friction between string and saddle
* Presence of a floating tremolo bridge
* String core diameter, construction, and material (probably not a factor in your case)

These are small things, but they add up, and can make one instrument feel soft and rubbery under the hands, another feel stiff and taut.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by tstone

If the strings are truly the same and the scale lengths are the same, the actual string tension -- the force which the string exerts on the tuning post and on the ball end -- are the same. Physics demands it.

But there's a difference between actual tension and perceived tension, or compliance. Compliance is defined as the force required to bend a string sideways a given distance at a given fret, but also affects the overall feel even if you're not doing any string bending. Factors which affect compliance and will make strings feel 'softer' include:

* Deeper nut slots, or, lower action at the first fret
* Shallower break angle at the nut
* Shallower break angle at the bridge
* Longer length of string between nut and tuning post
* Longer length of string between saddle and ball end
* Lower coefficient of friction between string and nut slot
* Lower coefficient of friction between string and saddle
* Presence of a floating tremolo bridge
* String core diameter, construction, and material (probably not a factor in your case)

These are small things, but they add up, and can make one instrument feel soft and rubbery under the hands, another feel stiff and taut.

Thanks. You may be onto something. The "harder" feeling bass has a string tree, the "soft" one does not. This creates a more severe angle above the nut on the harder instrument.

Also, the harder instrument has a Hipshot type B bridge, while the softer one uses a proprietary design which is essentially a Hipshot type A. The string angle from the saddle to the retainers on the type B is observably more severe than on the type A.

I wonder if these two factors together may be enough to create a perceptible difference in feel.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Does one have a Buzz Feiten Tuning Method? If so, even though it is considered a 34" instrument, the distance between the nut and saddle is shorter...

[Slowgypsy]

Okay... so you've already said the instruments are completely different brands/models. That they feel different is not surprising to me. Are they both either fretted or fretless? Do they have the identical fretboard radius? Is the nut width the same on both? Is the neck profile the same on both? Not-For-Nothing... but... these are some of the things that make one instrument "feel" better/worse for us, and will have much more impact on how an instrument feels in your hands than, say, whether the scale length is 34" or 33-7/8".

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

Do they have the identical fretboard radius? Is the nut width the same on both? Is the neck profile the same on both? Not-For-Nothing... but... these are some of the things that make one instrument "feel" better/worse for us, and will have much more impact on how an instrument feels in your hands than, say, whether the scale length is 34" or 33-7/8".

+1 the ergonomics of the neck (i.e. width, fb radius, profile of the back of the neck, size of the frets, and especially the height of the strings at the nut) can make a considerable difference in how a bass feels.