Searching for the right strings - flats?

PDGood · #1 07-19-2011, 08:26 AM

I've always used rounds (D'Addario and Rotosound) or half rounds but lately have tried some things on an Ibanez SRX2 to get it to sound less "tinny".

I tried tape wounds first which were a ton of fun to play but got lost in the mix on the G and D strings. I missed the metallic attack that helps give notes separation.

So I bought a set of Chromes (45-100) which sound pretty good and are and less "tinny" on the G and D. So far, so good. However, they are the stiffest strings I've every played. There is very little "give" to them at all. I can't imagine what the 50-105 set would be like.

Are all flats this stiff feeling or are some other brands more flexible?

Basshoofd · #2 07-19-2011, 09:07 AM

If you like the Chomes then you could try the 40 set. Thomastik Infeld flats are very low tension but the tone is different (not as bright as Chromes)

PDGood · #3 07-19-2011, 09:41 AM

Thanks. I heard the T-I's in a string comparison that someone had posted and thought the same thing - a little dark sounding. I like the brighter sound.
What about LaBellas or Rotosounds?

darkstorm · #4 07-21-2011, 04:58 PM

Have you tried lowering the bridge pup just a tad and raising the neck pup just a tad For better tone, less bridge pup tinnyness? Its also possible both sets of pups need to be raised a bit, the bridge one not as much though. Cause sometimes when pups are to far away from strings they can start sounding a bit thin.

Are you sure bass has fresh or reasonably fresh battery in it? Thinness in sound can sometimes indicate battery weakening.

Rotosounds should sound good on the bass. Lol.

jmlee · #5 07-21-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDGood

I've always used rounds (D'Addario and Rotosound) or half rounds but lately have tried some things on an Ibanez SRX2 to get it to sound less "tinny".

I tried tape wounds first which were a ton of fun to play but got lost in the mix on the G and D strings. I missed the metallic attack that helps give notes separation.

So I bought a set of Chromes (45-100) which sound pretty good and are and less "tinny" on the G and D. So far, so good. However, they are the stiffest strings I've every played. There is very little "give" to them at all. I can't imagine what the 50-105 set would be like.

Are all flats this stiff feeling or are some other brands more flexible?

The tension in strings is related to a variety of factors including the mass per unit length (think string thickness), the string length and the stiffness of the material the string is made from. For some of those reasons, all strings have less tension on a short scale neck (30") to reach the same pitch. Therefore a relatively stiff string like Chromes can be quite pleasant on a short scale neck like my Rogue violin bass but way too stiff and nasty on my 34" scale P-bass. The TIs on the other hand are plain floppy on a short scale but really nice on my P-bass and my Jack Casady. Don't rule out the TIs until you've tried them. They sound very balanced and articulate on my instruments and can be plenty bright when needed. They were a real revelation for me, much better than any other I've tried on a long scale bass--and worth every nickel of the price.

PDGood · #6 07-21-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Have you tried lowering the bridge pup just a tad and raising the neck pup just a tad For better tone, less bridge pup tinnyness? Its also possible both sets of pups need to be raised a bit, the bridge one not as much though. Cause sometimes when pups are to far away from strings they can start sounding a bit thin.

Are you sure bass has fresh or reasonably fresh battery in it? Thinness in sound can sometimes indicate battery weakening.

Rotosounds should sound good on the bass. Lol.

Thanks, I'll try adjusting the pups. Hadn't thought of that.
The battery is fairly new, but that's a good thought.

I liked the Rotosound stainless strings for growl and clarity. Very nice. Just thin up top and VERY microphonic. By that I mean it has a lot of string squeak when moving from position to position. I switched to the nickel D'Addario strings to try to improve those two things, but really it didn't help either. Still great with growl though.
I use that bass for solo type things where every little noise is heard, so string squeak is an issue.

I have two amps and the top end does sound richer through the Eden than the Markbass. I just thought I'd try to get it to sound as good as possible through both.

PDGood · #7 07-21-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmlee

The tension in strings is related to a variety of factors including the mass per unit length (think string thickness), the string length and the stiffness of the material the string is made from. For some of those reasons, all strings have less tension on a short scale neck (30") to reach the same pitch. Therefore a relatively stiff string like Chromes can be quite pleasant on a short scale neck like my Rogue violin bass but way too stiff and nasty on my 34" scale P-bass. The TIs on the other hand are plain floppy on a short scale but really nice on my P-bass and my Jack Casady. Don't rule out the TIs until you've tried them. They sound very balanced and articulate on my instruments and can be plenty bright when needed. They were a real revelation for me, much better than any other I've tried on a long scale bass--and worth every nickel of the price.

Thanks, those are really interesting points and I can see that you've given it some serious thought. You make a good case for TI's and I'll likely try them for my next set.

Now that I've had a few days with the Chromes I have to say that I really like them for general bass playing - groove stuff and blending in the mix. The downside of that is, as I mentioned, that that's generally not what I use this bass for. I've got a vintage P bass that is perfect for that. Even with round wounds on, it is as mellow as most basses with flats and always fits in a mix.

But the Ibanez has access to higher frets, a lot more variation of tone - deep lows and brighter highs and those things make it appealing for solo work. Not that I do a ton of that, but I like to be able to play a handful of songs by myself if there's an appropriate situation for that. For that kind of thing the G and D need to have clarity and sustain, but not be tinny. And really none of it should be thumpy so I know in one sense I'm headed down the wrong path.

There is a real possibility that it isn't the right bass for what I want to do. A custom Fender-type bass with access to higher frets might be the answer or maybe a Cirrus or some other option entirely different. No matter, those are just dreams. Buying new strings is the only option for now.

Lobster11 · #8 07-23-2011, 12:34 PM

Aha! Your last post really helps clarify the issue. As you well know, what sounds good when you're playing solo often doesn't sound good "in the mix" with a band, and vice-versa. You seem to be happy with your Fender for your in-the-mix sound, so the question is what will give you the best sound on the Ibby when you play solo. This suggests to me that your strategy should be to bring both basses to a gig: Play the Fender with the band, switch to the Ibby when you do something solo, and then switch back to the Fender when the band comes back. If you do that, you can look for the strings for the Ibby that give you the sound you want for the solo pieces without worrying about whether they sound good in the mix while playing with the band.

With that in mind, you said in your first post that you really liked the tapewounds, but they "got lost in the mix on the G and D strings" when you played with the band. So, couldn't you just go back to the tapewounds on the Ibby if the plan is to switch back to the Fender bass when the band comes back?

PDGood · #9 07-23-2011, 01:39 PM

Hey Lobster,
You're exactly right in describing my situation better than I described it.

What I failed to mention is that I also didn't like the "nylon factor" that nylon coated strings added. Yeah, it got rid of the thinness in the sound but it almost sounded like the tone was heading towards a classical guitar sound.

I tried them with a pick - playing on the low strings or in low positions and that is a good sound of a very different sort, it's just not something I would hardly ever use. So I'm not knocking them, they're just not for me.

You're right to say that I'd like this to be my solo instrument, but since I haven't found the magic combination for that yet, I want to get some use out of the instrument so that's why I'm also exploring the possibilities of having it as a backup to the Fender.

I recently went to a jam and played someone else's rig that didn't have much bottom end - the Ibby would have been helpful for that situation with its active electronics and deeper bottom end (wish I had taken it with me).

The Chromes are really growing on me. I'm adjusted to the stiffness now, so I'm over that. I really like the tone for backing up the Fender with these strings - it sits pretty well in the mix and gives me a more growly alternative. Just not as much sustain up high as I'd like for the solo stuff.

But I am keeping my eyes open for a string that will do both - sit well in the mix and play with sustain and fullness up high. I'm seriously thinking next time I get some cash I should have a pickup made that splits in half so that I can have separate EQ on the G and D than I have on the E and A. Seems like I'm always trying to fill out the G,D but when I do the E string is boomy.

5StringFool · #10 07-23-2011, 01:47 PM

You might want to give these a try sometime.

Rotosound Solo Bass 55 - 4 String Set

PDGood · #11 07-23-2011, 02:56 PM

Interesting. The description certainly fits.

I went to the Rotosound website for more info but they are really tight-lipped about their products - everything is made from a "unique" material or "special" process. OoooooK. Give me some of those double-secret super-unique strings, please.

J/K. I really like their strings that I've tried. But it wouldn't hurt if they described the sound of them in a little more detail.

SLaPiNFuNK · #12 07-23-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5StringFool

You might want to give these a try sometime.

Rotosound Solo Bass 55 - 4 String Set

PDGood,

Solo Bass 55's are pretty unique.

Basically whats going on here, the outer wrapping is pressed into an oval shape before it is wound on the string. This makes the outer wrapping feel smoother to the touch, you get less finger noise during shifts, and the strings feel tight and sound punchy.

Rotosound calls these strings Pressure Wounds and are Stainless Steel.

Ken Smith has a similar string called "Compression Wounds" and are a Nickel-Iron Alloy.

For years I have used the Ken Smith Compressors on my P-Bass. For a while I used them on both my 6 string's, one fretted and one fretless (but currently use rounds on them again).

If you want a strong sounding, punchy, smooth to the touch, quiet string... Pressure / Compression wounds is it.

The site 5StringFool linked to is my site. I offer special pricing to forum members. See the thread in my sig for more information on that if interested.

PDGood · #13 07-23-2011, 09:59 PM

Thanks! I have bookmarked that page of your site and and I'm really looking forward to trying those out on this bass - it sounds ideal. I'm going to put a few more miles on these flats first since I've put down the money on three sets of strings already. After that I'd like to give those a try.

**jmattbassplaya** · #14 07-23-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basshoofd

If you like the Chomes then you could try the 40 set. Thomastik Infeld flats are very low tension but the tone is different (not as bright as Chromes)

The lighter gauged chromes feel like your typical roundwounds tension wise. I have them currently strung on my P and they are fantastic.

I have a set of TI's on my jazz and, to me, they sound really thin compared to the chromes (and even some rounds).

SLaPiNFuNK · #15 07-23-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDGood

Thanks! I have bookmarked that page of your site and and I'm really looking forward to trying those out on this bass - it sounds ideal. I'm going to put a few more miles on these flats first since I've put down the money on three sets of strings already. After that I'd like to give those a try.

Sounds like a plan.

FWIW, here is an image of Ken Smith Round Wounds, Compression Wounds, and Slick Rounds (half rounds)... This will give you an idea of what the strings look like.

(I am working on detailed images of various strings... (they will be better quality than this though!))

PDGood · #16 07-24-2011, 06:01 AM

Good stuff!

PDGood · #17 08-27-2011, 06:07 PM

Thanks to the guys at BassStringsOnline for getting me a good price. This kind of experimentation can get expensive (for my budget) and I appreciate your help.

Here's an update on what I've learned recently:
I tried the compression wound and while they have a reduced string squeak they achieve this by having less high end, so I feel like I could have just rolled the treble back on round wounds and got the same result. Not really what I was hoping for, but I could live with that part. The weird thing about them though is they have an odd feel as if there is resistance when you slide from one note to the next. It's so pronounced that I find that it discourages me from sliding at all and is affecting my playing as a result. It's as if I just ate a honeybun, didn't wash my hands and then sat down to play. Sticky.
If you're strictly a vertical player then these might be OK for you, but my style emphasizes sliding horizontally so this didn't work for me.

I gave the flats a good workout before trying the compression wounds and those had some real pluses. While I'm not a fan of the clunky sound when played solo, they work very well in a band mix. On the Ibanez (which has versatile electronics), the neck pickup with flats sounded a lot like McCartney's sound - deep and warm and meshed well with other instruments. Using mostly the bridge pickup and rolling off the highs I get a great fretless sound. This instrument is totally usable with these strings. It isn't what I was originally going for - a solo instrument - but it has found good use.

Lobster11 · #18 09-04-2011, 07:54 AM

For those "sticky" strings: Have you tried wiping them down with some denatured alcohol (or something similar)? Might be worth a shot before giving up on them....

PDGood · #19 09-04-2011, 08:42 AM

Thanks but that was just an analogy. They aren't literally sticky, you just get the same result when you try to slide on these strings as if they were. For another analogy think of them like sandpaper. Imagine trying to play a set of strings made of coarse sandpaper. You can move horizontally, but there's a lot of resistance - or drag, if you will. Weirdest thing I've ever seen. I tried them out for a week or two and then took them off. In my opinion, these strings would not be good on any bass under any circumstance.

Lobster11 · #20 09-04-2011, 09:28 AM

Ha! In my defense, though, at least I didn't suggest that you wash your hands after eating honeybuns! Also, I really did have a set of flats once -- don't remember which brand -- that were literally "sticky" right out of the box, and I remember searching TB and finding that other people had had the same experience with that brand. That's probably where I got the idea for the denatured alcohol, too.

Anyway, now that I understand your point, it's a very interesting one and certainly counterintuitive: One would think that the almost-smooth compression-wounds would feel almost as "slippery" as flats, right?