Stephen Stills bass tone...which string?

[tigerbass]

I am about to join a Crosby, Stills and Nash (and Young) cover band, and I want to try to be fairly true to his sound. I have a Fender P with custom wound Mojo PU's from Stan Hinesly at HAS Sound which are incredible sounding, at least to me, so I have the bass covered.
My question to all my well versed TB bretheren is which string would you recommend? I know he used LaBella's so I am 99.9% sure I am getting the Deep Talkin' flats. But which one would be closer to his tone, the FL's or the FS's? Or can you tell? I have really only used Fenders...which I hated, and I have Thomastik's on my fretless Jazz which are cool, but probably not for CSN.
Would someone with expertise in this area please help me out?!
Thank you so much!

[Luckydog]

Actually in an interview he said he used (and still switches a set among his basses) Fender flats. I use Fender flats on a P and it just kills. Huge powerful low end, punchy mids, highs are greatly attenuated. These strings cut but not like in a roundwound slicing sense...they have a nice round but very very powerful punch that kicks you right in the gut. Yet they can be smooth an fill out the bottom end so fine. If I had to rate flats on their sheer power of their fat punch I would put 9050's right at the top. The Labellas have some of the same tonality as the Fenders, but a little less push IMO. I'm surprised you don't like the Fenders.

[RCCollins]

seems to me the thomastiks should be fine though. they may not attenuate the highs the same way laBellas do, but you can compensate for that with EQ pretty easily

then again Fender Flats and La Bellas are both reasonably affordable so why not go for it

[tigerbass]

The tension on the Fenders was kinda brutal if I remember correctly!

[Rich Guastella]

Youse guys might give me the "Bonehead" award for the day, but when did Stills play Bass???...I thought it was always Dunnor Greg Reeves???
Rich

[bigtexashonk]

Stills always used to say he would rub bbq sauce into new flatwounds to get that worn in sound.

[mellowgerman]

Originally Posted by Luckydog

Actually in an interview he said he used (and still switches a set among his basses) Fender flats. I use Fender flats on a P and it just kills. Huge powerful low end, punchy mids, highs are greatly attenuated. These strings cut but not like in a roundwound slicing sense...they have a nice round but very very powerful punch that kicks you right in the gut. Yet they can be smooth an fill out the bottom end so fine. If I had to rate flats on their sheer power of their fat punch I would put 9050's right at the top. The Labellas have some of the same tonality as the Fenders, but a little less push IMO. I'm surprised you don't like the Fenders.

I've been trying different sets of flats for about 7 or 8 years now. every brand you could think of (even vintage sets from the 60s). my favorite set i ever had was a fender set. the worst set i ever had was also a fender set. the difference was that the good set was a 55-105 set. the crappy set was a 45-95. Also these strings need a lot of breaking in before they sound really good. I've found that wiping them down with moisturizing lotion will do the same job as playing them a lot for a few years.
But those are just my $.02. Hope it helps.

[jumbo_steelie]

He played the bassline for sweet judy blue eyes with a fender P strung with flats. He said in an interview that he beat the hell out of the stinrgs, everything from blood to cheeseburger grease just to get that dead sound out of them.

[Luckydog]

Originally Posted by tigerbass

The tension on the Fenders was kinda brutal if I remember correctly!

Yeah, the 9050M's are pretty rigid. I use the 9050ML's and while they do have some tension, they feel great to me. You can lower your action, and play with a lighter touch. You might need a truss rod adjustment but your P neck should be fine.

[mellowgerman]

Originally Posted by bigtexashonk

Stills always used to say he would rub bbq sauce into new flatwounds to get that worn in sound.

haha looks like stills and I are like-minded individuals

[Luckydog]

Originally Posted by mellowgerman

I've been trying different sets of flats for about 7 or 8 years now. every brand you could think of (even vintage sets from the 60s). my favorite set i ever had was a fender set. the worst set i ever had was also a fender set. the difference was that the good set was a 55-105 set. the crappy set was a 45-95. Also these strings need a lot of breaking in before they sound really good. I've found that wiping them down with moisturizing lotion will do the same job as playing them a lot for a few years.
But those are just my $.02. Hope it helps.

I agree mellowgerman that putting something on them like lotion or oil will help attract the funk! Also helps with slides particularly on hot sweaty gigs when you need a little help. I do believe the ML set is 50 - 100.

[tigerbass]

Originally Posted by jumbo_steelie

He played the bassline for sweet judy blue eyes with a fender P strung with flats. He said in an interview that he beat the hell out of the stinrgs, everything from blood to cheeseburger grease just to get that dead sound out of them.

I just learned that bassline this morning...totally bada$$!
I REALLY need that FAT bass tone for sure! I'm bumming about the Fender flatwound deal actually!
Not a big fan

I need to get these strings like yesterday to get them broken in/rubbed down w bbq sauce/ hamburger grease/ blood/ etc.etc.etc. haha!
I guess I just need a FAT sounding flatwound that doesn't have ridiculously high string tension.
Maybe that is an oxymoron?

[JTE]

Don't worry. He used OLD Fenders, not the new ones. Fender doesn't make anything that feels or sounds like the original Fender 850s that he probably used. If you don't like the feel or sound of Fender's new flats ("new" here meaning in the last 20 years), then try a set of Lakland Joe Osborn flats. My favorite flatwound after decades of trying different ones. They have a definite note in them which is critical, but they also have that fundemental thump that defines "flatwound" to me.

Also, it was generally a Fender Bassman (the original non-master volume ones with a pair of 6L6) and the 2x12 cabinet. When I saw Manasas, Calvin Samuels had a wall of them.

Stills probably played bass on ever CSN(Y) track that he wrote, and he's the bassist on the whole first album (the one with "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes", "Wooden Ships", etc.) His first two solo albums had individual credits for each track, and he played bass on a lot of them himself. He's also credited on a Joni Mitchell album as "Rock 'n' Roll Band" because he played bass, guitar, drums, and probably keys as well. "Captain Many Hands" was a nickname Crosby gave him.

jte

[tigerbass]

Thanks JTE, I have an old 4x12 cabinet, coupled with my Sansamp RPM with the proper settings, hopefully I can come come close. I am gonna go searching for the Joe Osborns right now. Keep em' comin' if you got em'!

[jasper383]

Originally Posted by JTE

Don't worry. He used OLD Fenders, not the new ones. Fender doesn't make anything that feels or sounds like the original Fender 850s that he probably used. If you don't like the feel or sound of Fender's new flats ("new" here meaning in the last 20 years), then try a set of Lakland Joe Osborn flats. My favorite flatwound after decades of trying different ones. They have a definite note in them which is critical, but they also have that fundemental thump that defines "flatwound" to me.

Also, it was generally a Fender Bassman (the original non-master volume ones with a pair of 6L6) and the 2x12 cabinet. When I saw Manasas, Calvin Samuels had a wall of them.

Stills probably played bass on ever CSN(Y) track that he wrote, and he's the bassist on the whole first album (the one with "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes", "Wooden Ships", etc.) His first two solo albums had individual credits for each track, and he played bass on a lot of them himself. He's also credited on a Joni Mitchell album as "Rock 'n' Roll Band" because he played bass, guitar, drums, and probably keys as well. "Captain Many Hands" was a nickname Crosby gave him.

jte

GHS makes the Osborn flats, and I have found the GHS Precision Flats to be the same string, or so close that no one could likely tell. For about $10 less per set.

That's interesting about the difference between the old Fender flats and the new 9050 sets. I would agree, old recordings with the 850s have a "rubbery" quality that the 9050s don't seem have. I thought it might be the way bass was recorded then, but there may be something else here.

[T-34]

I believe the "old" Fender flats had an interior silk wrapping under the flat ribbon. 9050's definitely don't.

[Prof.Dr.Metz]

Originally Posted by JTE

Don't worry. He used OLD Fenders, not the new ones. Fender doesn't make anything that feels or sounds like the original Fender 850s that he probably used. If you don't like the feel or sound of Fender's new flats ("new" here meaning in the last 20 years), then try a set of Lakland Joe Osborn flats. My favorite flatwound after decades of trying different ones. They have a definite note in them which is critical, but they also have that fundemental thump that defines "flatwound" to me.

Also, it was generally a Fender Bassman (the original non-master volume ones with a pair of 6L6) and the 2x12 cabinet. When I saw Manasas, Calvin Samuels had a wall of them.

Stills probably played bass on ever CSN(Y) track that he wrote, and he's the bassist on the whole first album (the one with "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes", "Wooden Ships", etc.) His first two solo albums had individual credits for each track, and he played bass on a lot of them himself. He's also credited on a Joni Mitchell album as "Rock 'n' Roll Band" because he played bass, guitar, drums, and probably keys as well. "Captain Many Hands" was a nickname Crosby gave him.

jte

hi jte, i've read a few threads in which you mention fender 850 flats. could you explain what the differences are between the new fender flats and the original ones? thanks

[JTE]

Originally Posted by Prof.Dr.Metz

hi jte, i've read a few threads in which you mention fender 850 flats. could you explain what the differences are between the new fender flats and the original ones? thanks

Not really. I haven't used 850s since about 1979 when I started using GHS Brite-Flats and various rounds. My only experience with Fender flats are what I've played in stores (they ship some putrid flats on their fretless basses) and the set of 9050MLs I had on my Sting for a short while.

The new Fenders are much more taut and more brittle sounding than my recollection of new 850s were. Fender shipped all the basses with 850s until about 1983 when they introduced the Studio Bass series of strings. The 850s had a definite note in them, had some tension, especially the E and A, but weren't harsh sounding at all.

jte

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by JTE

Also, it was generally a Fender Bassman (the original non-master volume ones with a pair of 6L6) and the 2x12 cabinet. When I saw Manasas, Calvin Samuels had a wall of them.

non-master volume is a huge element of these vintage tones